Bringing Radio to New Democracies.

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: AUGUST 26, 1999
Time: 12:00
Tran: 082601np.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: Radio: A Third-World Tool for Democracy
Sect: News; International
Time: 12:06

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

TERRY GROSS, HOST: From WHYY in Philadelphia, I'm Terry Gross with FRESH AIR.

On today's FRESH AIR, using the boom box for social change. We talk with Bill Siemering, a pioneer in public radio in the U.S. He's now helping to develop community stations in emerging democracies. He says radio is often the most important medium in new democracies.

Also today, the Flamin' Groovies. We talk with the band's co-founder, Roy Loney. The band started in San Francisco in the late '60s playing a kind of punkish pop that didn't fit into the psychedelic scene. Two of their albums have been reissued. And film critic John Powers (ph) reviews Albert Brooks's new movie, "The Muse."

That's all coming up on FRESH AIR.

First the news.

(NEWS BREAK)

GROSS: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

My guest, Bill Siemering, was one of the architects of National Public Radio. He was NPR's first director of programming. He wrote the network's first mission statement and created "All Things Considered." I had the pleasure of working with him in the '80s when he was station manager at WHYY, where FRESH AIR is produced.

For the past few years, Siemering has been taking his vision of radio to emerging democracies, places like South Africa, Mozambique and Mongolia where radio used to be controlled by the state or where the society was so low-tech, few people had radios. Siemering started this work in 1993, when he received a MacArthur Foundation fellowship. Now he works with the Soros Foundation's Open Society Institute. His work ranges from training journalists to bringing transmitters to fledgling stations.

Bill Siemering says radio is often the most important form of communication in new democracies.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

BILL SIEMERING, THE OPEN SOCIETY INSTITUTE: In the first place, these are countries that are quite poor and couldn't afford to have television or newspapers. Many of the people are illiterate. Distribution of newspapers is difficult. And so radio is the most important medium.

GROSS: Set the scene for us. I mean, describe a couple of very low-tech places where people rely on radio for information and for connection.

SIEMERING: In Mozambique, I went out into a rural village where some of the youngsters had not seen a white person before. And we were there to gather information about what their interests were, what their needs were for radio. Some of them have not been to a store to make a purchase for maybe five years.

They are subsistence farmers that are just bartering. And so some of them, many of them, don't have radio, to begin with, and didn't really know about radio or the language -- or the broadcasts they could hear were in Portuguese and not in their own language. So this was a very isolated kind of situation. But they were very much in need of health information, where you have a high incidence of sexually transmitted diseases, for example, or poor nutrition, really preventable diseases that can be aided by just information.

The other side of that would be in Mongolia, where you have the largest group of nomads in the world, and they're living, again, in very isolated areas in their yurts, herding sheep and goats and horses and so on. And there's no other way for them to get information. So radio really is the most important medium in these countries.

GROSS: Then in America, you know, I think most people rely on radio for time, temperature, news, traffic and music. What are some of the more unusual programs that you've heard?

SIEMERING: Well, some of the more unusual uses of it would be what is the price of animal skins, for example, for the nomads. Of course, weather is important there, but I think they're probably very skilled at reading their own weather...

GROSS: Right.

SIEMERING: ... signs. But weather certainly is important, but price -- market prices. And in places like Mozambique, again, there's agricultural information. But most importantly, it's kind of development-oriented things. Even a simple thing about announcing deaths and funerals is important.

I remember at one station in Mozambique there were some -- a small family gathered around the station. I said, "Why are they here?" And they said, "Well, they've lost their family. They've gotten separated somehow. And the only place they knew to come was to the radio station to help to find them."

GROSS: So the radio station isn't just, like, playing programs. It's, like, an active participant in the community.

SIEMERING: Yes. That's one of the characteristics of these stations. They're not a passive transmitter of information. They're actively engaged with the community in the production of the programs, in getting feedback, in all aspects of it.

GROSS: We asked you to bring in an excerpt of a broadcast from Mongolia, and what you've brought with you is a very kind of unusual broadcast. Maybe you can explain this for us and then play an excerpt.

SIEMERING: This is a little piece that is heard on the state broadcasting, and it's unusual in that I think it's produced by somebody in Scotland, where there's also Mongolian listening. So it's a way of Mongolians kind of learning some English and about music, pop music. And the other thing I would mention in here is it's sponsored by Nescafe. And Mongolians -- they have a way of kind of slurping their coffee and tea or something, so that's why you hear this kind of funny sound.

GROSS: And so this is not community radio. This is state-sponsored...

SIEMERING: This is not community. This is...

GROSS: ... radio.

SIEMERING: ... state radio in a local station in Ulan Bator, Blue Sky Radio.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: Coffee break. Coffee Break. (sound of slurping)

MAN'S VOICE: Nescafe. Coffee Tusin (ph). Coffee Tusin. (sound of appreciative sigh)

ANNOUNCER: Hello, there, and welcome to Nescafe Coffee Break on Blue Sky Radio, Brian An Balor (ph) in our studio in Scotland with all of our listeners together on Blue Sky today. It's nice to be with you.

WOMAN'S VOICE: Sambano (ph).

ANNOUNCER: Sambano. Thank you. How do I say "Thank you"?

WOMAN'S VOICE: Bayeelchla (ph).

ANNOUNCER: Bayeechla.

WOMAN'S VOICE: Bayeelchla.

ANNOUNCER: Huh?

WOMAN'S VOICE: Maybe it's better for you to pronounce "Bayeella."

ANNOUNCER: Bayeella.

WOMAN'S VOICE: Yeah. Double "L."

ANNOUNCER: Bayeell-lla. (laughter) That sound is very difficult for Western people.

WOMAN'S VOICE: Oh, yeah. Sure.

ANNOUNCER: I think I'll stick to the music. OK, the Back Street Boys is what we're going to play today, one of the big songs of 1997. It's called "As Long As You Love Me," and it's a good song.

WOMAN'S VOICE: (speaks in Mongolian) Do you know the meaning of the name of the band?

ANNOUNCER: No. It probably means that they come from a poor area. If you say they're "back street," it means they come from a poor area.

WOMAN'S VOICE: (laughs) OK. OK. (speaks in Mongolian)

(END AUDIO CLIP)

GROSS: Bill, do you often hear Western pop music on the radio in Mongolia?

SIEMERING: Yes. In fact, often I'm listening to the radio, and I think I could be in America. It's only when I hear the back-announce that I realize that it, of course, is not, because they have access in Ulan Bator to MTV on satellite. And so a lot of times their top 10 lists will come off of MTV.

GROSS: So I guess that's part of the reason why you need community radio.

SIEMERING: And why you need community radio, yes, and ways of affirming the local culture.

GROSS: Give me -- give me a sense of what you do. You fly into Mongolia, and then you head right to a radio station there? I mean, give me a sense of what your last trip to Mongolia was like.

SIEMERING: My last trip to Mongolia was like this. I arrived on Friday and went to the foundation office and...

GROSS: The Soros Foundation office.

SIEMERING: ... the Soros Foundation, and met with my colleagues there. And Monday morning, we got on the trans-Siberian railroad and traveled 10 hours north to the Russian border, where there was a small town, provincial capital, where a couple of women journalists wanted to start a radio station. And so we met with them. We had our business meeting, and they said, "We need some -- we need some inspiration, so let's go to the countryside and go to a high point that's closer to the sky and to the birds." And so we did that because the Mongolians are very close to nature and very connected to that. And so this was -- this was a different kind of thing than you have as a business meeting here.

GROSS: Yeah, I'll say!

SIEMERING: We also went to visit what they called the "mother tree," which has a legend around it that a mother with an infant was following a pilgrim in the winter, and she got lost and froze to death. And on that spot, a tree grew. And because of this, they felt that the area around that had special powers, particularly for women. And so women come and offer prayers -- men and women, but it has particularly for women -- for whatever. One of the journalists we were with had not been able to conceive a child, and she prayed to the mother tree, and she has two children now.

Again, this isn't the typical kind of thing that you go out and do after a business meeting. We then took a train at 3:00 in the morning to another town, where they were just starting a radio station, a UNESCO-sponsored station. And I did workshop on what you -- what are the basics for starting a radio station.

GROSS: Now, you've made several trips to South Africa...

SIEMERING: Many, yeah.

GROSS: ... in the past few years. And that's an area where the nature of broadcasting is really changing. It's not state-sponsored broadcasting anymore. And blacks in South Africa can have their own radio shows now, which is very new. It's just a post-apartheid phenomenon, I'd imagine.

SIEMERING: Well, actually, during the days of apartheid, the South African Broadcasting Corporation did broadcast in the 11 languages. And Zulu is the most listened to program service there. But it was all state-controlled.

GROSS: Right.

SIEMERING: So there were certainly black Africans that were broadcasting, but they were following the government line.

GROSS: What's happening on South African radio now in the post-apartheid era that couldn't have happened under apartheid?

SIEMERING: Well, one of the things that we're really proud of is that there's been remarkably effective election coverage, with all the different parties. There are about 26 different parties or so. And the community stations really did extraordinary good leadership in that. South African broadcasting also was doing a remarkable job of that. And it's interesting because I was there during the first election in '94, and there were all kinds of Americans and Canadians there to teach people how to cover elections. As if we knew. And now I would say that they could come here and teach us some things about how to run elections. I mean, there weren't, you know, attack ads. There weren't -- they were focusing on issues. And really, a lot of community participation.

GROSS: Now, you've brought with you a tape excerpt of an early broadcast from a community radio station. Tell us about the tape that you've brought. Introduce it for us.

SIEMERING: Yes. I had the privilege of being with a group of rural women that were wanting to start a radio station in 1994. And they were learning how to use a tape recorder and a microphone for the first time. And they broke up into small groups, about four groups, and produced little five-minute pieces, complete with their own songs and interviews and so on. And then they sat down and they played them and critiqued them.

And there was this wonderful moment after this of this realization that they could do it. And they said, "We can do this. This isn't so hard." And that's one of the beautiful things about radio. It really is so accessible and so easy to do. And they put on this programming, and this is what it sounded like.

(AUDIO CLIP OF SOUTH AFRICAN COMMUNITY RADIO BROADCAST WITH SINGING)

GROSS: That's an excerpt of a broadcast from rural South Africa.

My guest is Bill Siemering, who's been traveling to emerging democracies around the world, helping people build community radio stations.

Bill, it must be sometimes frustrating for you to hear this exciting stuff happening on the radio in languages that aren't English.

SIEMERING: Right.

GROSS: So you don't know exactly what's...

SIEMERING: It is.

GROSS: ... being said.

SIEMERING: That's right. I know that they -- one of the issues that they talked a lot about was polygamy, which is a very serious issue for rural women because their husbands go to town to work in the mines and leave them in the countryside. And while they're in the city, they take another bride and -- and they are left sometimes with fewer resources. So they were having as one of their slogans, "One man, one wife."

(END AUDIOTAPE)

GROSS: We'll talk more with Bill Siemering after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(ID BREAK)

GROSS: My guest is Bill Siemering. He was NPR's first director of programming. Now he's working with radio stations in emerging democracies.

(BEGIN AUDIOTAPE)

You've had a lot of experience working with people in the United States who are starting in public radio or community radio, trying to kind of instill in them a sense of journalistic ethics and fairness and professionalism in front of the microphone. And I'm wondering if a lot of the standards that you've taught here in the United States are the same ones that you're trying to teach now in emerging democracies or if things are different because the culture is different and the location is different?

SIEMERING: Well, there certainly are basic principles in covering news and accuracy, fairness and balance, for example, that apply all over. It's just like you operate with sterile instruments. That's kind of a given. And we talk about the importance of being able to trust what comes out of the radio speaker as you trust the water to be pure when you open a tap and -- but one of the issues that came up in South Africa early on was the idea of access because there community radio is really part of the liberation struggle, giving a voice to the voiceless, and everyone has a right to be on the radio.

And much of the training in the beginning days, when I first went there, was, you know, using a boom box to produce radio. And so you have this terrible-sounding "click, click, click" editing on cassette to cassette, which is hard to listen to and -- but when the stations went on air, they quickly found that the listeners were saying, "You know, that presenter isn't very good. Why are they on the radio?"

And so I argued that not everyone has a right to be on the radio. I think the listeners have a right -- all the listeners have a right to expect something worth listening to on the radio. And unless you are reaching out with some level of professionalism, with some degree of quality, good-quality programming and presentation, you're not going to be serving the community.

GROSS: That's interesting because it takes quality and makes it into a democratic principle, as opposed to making it into an elitist principle.

SIEMERING: Yes. And really, that's all we were talking about. It was a matter of having -- you know, there's a great deal of freshness to it because people have not used radio before. They don't know what you can't do with it. They don't run everything through a focus group, and there are some marvelous inventive things that come from this.

One station in South Africa near Capetown called Radio Zibonelli (ph), which is in a vast township, 750,000 people living in a sandy plain. And Radio Zibonelli has as its mission to improve the quality of the health of the community. And by that they mean not only the physical health, but the cultural health, the educational health, the environmental health.

And Zibonelli means "See for yourself." "Here's the information. See for yourself." And it's a wonderful idea of self-help. It's -- the whole idea is "No one's going to come down from heaven to clean this up or make this a nice place. It's up to us to do this ourselves." And so they do it.

And they have on in the mornings a remarkable program where listeners call up and -- and tell their friends to wake up.

GROSS: Excuse me?

SIEMERING: So it'd be, like, I would call up and say, "Tell Terry Gross to wake up. It's time to get to work." And so these messages go out, and it's kind of a wonderful way of creating community. It's a little -- maybe like Garrison Keillor talking about, you know, the messages -- you know, "We'll be home," whatever, where you -- you personalize a community that way. And it has the largest listenership, I think, of any station -- any community station in South Africa.

GROSS: Are there any aspects of your work now that remind you of when you were young and getting started in radio, working in public radio, I think, in Wisconsin?

SIEMERING: Yes. My roots in public radio are very deep because when I went to a -- this sounds like a funny story, but when I went to a two-room country school in Wisconsin, I learned about science and social studies, music and art all on radio by listening to the Wisconsin School of the Air. And now in Mongolia, we're talking about maybe a Mongolia school of the air, where there can be actual instructional programs for isolated schools in rural areas. So there is a parallel there.

GROSS: When you come home, do you see democracy in the United States or radio in the United States in a different way than you did before you started this work?

SIEMERING: Yes. I came back once and I remember some of -- some people were saying "Boy, this Rush Limbaugh. I mean, gee. Something ought to be done about him." And I said, "Oh. I mean, this is a free society," you know? That's what democracy's about. Whether you like him or not, you know, it's instructive and it's what we're doing here.

You can't very well come back and say, you know, take that kind of line when you're encouraging people overseas to have a free and open discussion of ideas. And yeah, it's -- it's a little -- it's a little discouraging to find things so kind of carefully formatted and so limited in a way that there's not this same spirit of experimentation and fun and trying things that I see overseas in the new democracies.

One of the things that I enjoy about working overseas is that all the people, nearly, that I work with are very young. Radio is a medium of young people. And this is a new generation that's kind of taking over in the countries, and so they're full of new ideas and enthusiasm for radio as a medium, story-telling, creative uses of it that we haven't done so much of here lately. And so this is very heartening to me.

And when I do workshops, I frequently end by pointing out that in English, the original meaning of "broadcast" was to scatter seeds, and I ask them what their meaning of "broadcast" is, and it tends to be similar. And I love that image of scattering seeds because I think that's what we, as broadcasters, do. We scatter seeds of information, of ideas that grow. Some of them don't grow, but that's what we offer for our listeners.

GROSS: Well, Bill Siemering, thank you very much. And good luck in your travels around the world.

SIEMERING: Thank you.

GROSS: Bill Siemering works with the Soros Foundation's Open Society Institute helping community radio stations in emerging democracies.

I'm Terry Gross, and this is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: Bill Siemering
High: Bill Siemering works for The Open Society Institute, a group that promotes open and free societies. He discusses building up radio in third-world countries to serve as a tool for democracy.
Spec: Radio and Television; Elections; World Affairs

Please note, this is not the final feed of record

Copy: Content and programming copyright 1999 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 1999 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: Radio: A Third-World Tool for Democracy

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: AUGUST 26, 1999
Time: 12:00
Tran: 082602NP.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: The Return of the Flamin' Groovies
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:30

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

TERRY GROSS, HOST: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Terry Gross.

This is a good time to catch up on the music of an influential cult band, The Flamin' Groovies. Now they're seen as a forerunner of punk rock, but a lot of people didn't know what to make of them in the '60s when they were a San Francisco-based band that wasn't playing psychedelic music.

Their early records didn't sell well, but they later became highly sought-after. Two Flamin' Groovies records have just been reissued, "Flamingo" and "Teenage Head."

My guest, Roy Loney, co-founded the band in 1965 and was its main songwriter, lead singer, and guitarist until he left in 1971.

Let's start with "Yesterday's Numbers" from "Teenage Head."

(EXCERPT FROM "YESTERDAY'S NUMBERS," THE Flamin' GROOVIES)

GROSS: Ray Loney, welcome to FRESH AIR.

ROY A. LONEY, CO-FOUNDER, THE Flamin' GROOVIES: Pleasure to be here.

GROSS: Do you think listeners will hear the Flamin' Groovies differently now in the late 1990s than they did in, say, the late '60s? Do you think that, given everything that's happened musically since the Flamin' Groovies, that the early records will sound different now?

LONEY: Yes, I do. I think back then, people didn't really expect us to sort of -- you know, we weren't exactly like everything else that was going on at the time. I mean, we were a little outside, you know, especially out of the San Francisco scene, you know, was the psychedelic era.

We were just playing these little two-minute songs. We were considered kind of an oldies band, actually, which we never understood. But we were rooted in roots rock and roll.

And we just didn't -- you know, we didn't sort of fit in with what was going on at the time, and we had a great cult following, always have. But I think now, we sound a little more mainstream than we did back then.

GROSS: Well, I think it's easy to hear the band now too as being a kind of forerunner of punk and roots-oriented new wave.

LONEY: Yes, I can see that. Lot of people have called us the godfathers of punk, which at first kind of -- you know, I couldn't understand, but I can sort of see it. I mean, I think mainly with the song "Teenage Head," I think, is that's where they, you know, got that from.

GROSS: Well, why don't we play some of "Teenage Head"?

LONEY: Great.

GROSS: And this is from one of the albums that has just been reissued, called "Teenage Head."

(EXCERPT, "TEENAGE HEAD," THE FLAMIN' GROOVIES)

GROSS: Ray Loney, one of the lines in "Teenage Head," a song you wrote, is, "I'm a monster, got a revved-up teenage head."

LONEY: Right.

GROSS: How does that song sound to you now, now that you're far from teenager-dom?

LONEY: (laughs) Well, you know, I still sing that song every time I perform. Kind of gotten past thinking about it, you know. I mean, I actually put an album out about two years ago called "Full Grown Head," which sort of -- you know...

GROSS: (laughs)

LONEY: ... got me up to date. But, yes, no, I have no problem singing it. And I -- you know, I -- it was always a tongue-in-cheek song, it was always meant to be funny. So, you know, I never had a problem with it. I still don't. I love singing it, actually.

GROSS: Who were some of the early rockers who had the biggest influence on you, and who still -- whose work you still really love?

LONEY: Well, Elvis, of course, was a big breakthrough for me. I was just a little kid when he -- the first Tommy Dorsey show, Dorsey Brothers TV show, and that just knocked me out, knocked me for a loop. And Chuck Berry, big, big influence on me as a guitar player and songwriter.

Little Richard, Fats Domino, Eddie Cochran was real big for me. A lot of people have compared my singing style to Eddie Cochran, and I can really see that, because it was a big, big influence on me back then.

GROSS: Now, you mention Elvis Presley, of course.

LONEY: Yes.

GROSS: And one of your songs, "Evil Hearted Ada"...

LONEY: Oh, yes.

GROSS: ... is a kind of humorous homage to Elvis, with, you know, a lot of, like, the reverb and the kind of...

LONEY: Right.

GROSS: ... Elvis hiccuping type of sound.

LONEY: Right. As much Elvis and Carl Perkins and -- just the Sun Records sort of rockabilly sound.

GROSS: Sure. Talk a little bit bout recording this and what you were going for.

LONEY: Well, we went in the studio, and we had this Echoplex unit, which at the time was, you know, kind of unique. Most people weren't using them, we were. And it just -- it was like -- it's like a repeat, just causes a repeat of the vocal sound. And we used it on our guitars, and we decided to use it on the vocal too and see if we could get a Sun Records sort of slap-back sound.

So we, you know, tried it, loved the way it sounded. And then there's this whole section in the middle of the song during the lead break, the guitar solo, where I just kind of go nuts...

GROSS: Great.

LONEY: ... and make as many weird noises as I can, and, you know, play off the effects. And I sort of did that in one take. The band didn't even get to hear it until I had recorded it. And they came in, and everybody just fell apart laughing, because it is -- you know, it's just sort of -- here's every cliched, you know, echo effect you've ever heard in your life, all in about a, you know, half a minute.

GROSS: Well, let's hear an excerpt of it.

(EXCERPT, "EVIL HEARTED ADA," FLAMIN' GROOVIES)

GROSS: That's the Flamin' Groovies from a just reissued CD called "Teenage Head." And the song we just heard was written and sung by my guest, Roy Loney, who was the lead singer and guitarist with the Flamin' Groovies.

The Flamin' Groovies were performing in the '60s, based in San Francisco at the height of the psychedelic music era. As you were saying, you didn't really fit into that...

LONEY: No.

GROSS: ... being more influenced by roots rock than psychedelic rock. What was your experience of the San Francisco music scene of the '60s?

LONEY: Oh, it was -- it turned me around. I remember going into the Filmore Auditorium the very first time with some friends. And we weren't doing psychedelics or even smoking pot at that point, we were drinking beer, you know.

And we went in there late one night and saw -- I think it was the Jefferson Airplane and the Quicksilver Messenger Service. And we were just knocked out, couldn't believe it. It was so loud and so -- like nothing we'd ever heard before. Totally blew my mind and made me want to do it.

You know, up to that point I had been a folk singer for a long time, and had thought about putting a rock band together, but I think seeing the San Francisco bands really turned a corner for us.

GROSS: But you weren't doing the long jams of, say, the Grateful Dead.

LONEY: No, that's the one thing, we...

GROSS: You weren't doing the politicized lyrics of the Jefferson Airplane.

LONEY: No, you know -- No (laughs), we just never got into that. And so we never really fit in. I mean, it was, like -- I think everybody thought of us as their sort of like funny little brothers, you know, who never kind of were serious. We never, you know, were taken all that seriously back then. Because we did these little two-minute songs. We didn't -- we didn't take a stance, we didn't -- it was all very good humored. Humor was, like, a main part of our sound.

Fun, basically it was fun, we were looking to do. And no politics, no long psychedelic jams, no blues, no folk-rock, just basic rock and roll.

GROSS: Now, the two albums that were just reissued have been out of circulation. What's it like for you to have them back in print, on CD?

LONEY: Oh, it's great, you know. I think -- you know, they've been available, like, on import and stuff for a long time. They haven't been totally out of print, they just haven't been available domestically.

And, you know, since we're a band who never sold record one in our time, you know, we, you know, were -- basically had a small cult following but never really sold any amount of records, I think it's great, that it shows that they actually think the music is good.

GROSS: Now, you've mentioned how little the Flamin' Groovies sold in terms...

LONEY: Oh, yes. (laughs)

GROSS: ... of the record sales.

LONEY: Oh, God.

GROSS: There's actually an ad that has been released on a collection of alternate takes and outtakes and unreleased material called...

LONEY: Oh, yes.

GROSS: ... "Flamin' Groovies, California Born and Bred."

LONEY: Right, yes.

GROSS: And it has an ad for your first...

LONEY: Yes, that's something we recorded.

GROSS: ... commercially available record, you know. And I thought we could hear that ad.

LONEY: Oh, that'd be great.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, FLAMIN' GROOVIES AD)

1st VOICE: Hey, Mr. Record Store Owner, what is that fantastically funky, outrageous, super-sockeroo, heavy, heavy, heavy, trippy, zippy, too much, and altogether out of sight record you're playing? Turn it up, turn it up! I can't stop dancing!

Whew. That's better. What was that paradise for rock and rollers?

2nd VOICE: Of course you couldn't stop dancing, young man. That was the Flamin' Groovies on their new epic album, "Supersnazz," a truly funky experience.

1st VOICE: Too much! I can't live another moment without owning my very own copy of that snazzy item.

(CROSSTALK)

2nd VOICE: ... several of them.

1st VOICE: I'm going to get 10 (ph).

2nd VOICE: All right, that makes five copies.

Hey. Hey, wait a minute. Aren't you fellas the Flamin' Groovies?

1st VOICE: Yes.

3rd VOICE: And don't forget, boys and girls, the Flamin' Groovies will be performing this weekend, along with Commander Cody (ph), Phoenix, and Rainbow Jam Light Show, at the old Filmore Auditorium, Filmore and Geary. That's Friday and Saturday, October 10 and 11. Admission only $1. Can you beat that!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GROSS: Well, Roy Loney, (laughs) that -- what will -- the end of that promotes a concert at the Filmore with a light show and everything. Did you perform with light shows a lot?

LONEY: Right. All the time, oh, sure, sure.

GROSS: What (laughs), what was that like?

LONEY: It was great. I mean, you were being entertained as much as you were entertaining, you know. I mean, it was, like, just like putting you in a different world, putting you in a good space. It got crazy at times. You couldn't see yourself, you couldn't see across the stage half the time. But I enjoyed it. I thought it was a lot of fun.

You know, it's more -- I think it's more fun when you're out in the audience watching it than it is when you're in the middle of it.

GROSS: My guest is Roy Loney, co-founder of the Flamin' Groovies. We'll talk more after a break.

This is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

GROSS: My guest is Roy Loney, who co-founded the Flamin' Groovies in 1965 and left the band in 1971. He was the main songwriter, lead singer, and guitarist. Two of their CDs have just been reissued.

You left the Flamin' Groovies in 1971. Why did you leave?

LONEY: It was a lot of different reasons. I was losing interest. We -- after we put out the "Teenage Head" album -- and it got great reviews, it just didn't sell at all -- the band was a little bit down. I was, I think, maybe the most down, just kind of losing interest all around in the business.

And I think at that point also Cyril (ph) was sort of moving in different directions musically. He wanted to, you know, go...

GROSS: Cyril, the other guitarist with the band.

LONEY: Yes, he was the lead guitar player, and he and I wrote all the songs together, pretty much. And I think it came to a point where he sort of wanted to run the band. He wanted to take a new direction. And it was a direction I wasn't really leaning towards.

And like I say, I was somewhat -- I don't know, disenchanted with the whole business. So I think it was just, you know, a natural parting of the ways.

GROSS: I hope you don't mind, I'm going to read a quote that Cyril said about you. This is from a 1979 fanzine...

LONEY: Oh, I think I know what's coming.

GROSS: ... interview that's -- (laughs) Yes, it's on the Internet. I'm just going to read an excerpt from this. He says, "Roy wouldn't keep up with the style, the mode of dress that we were into, the velvet coats or whatever. So acting like Jagger in white California Levi's and tennis shoes seemed weird. Basically, all it did was turn all these hip people off to the band."

So did -- did -- (laughs) What do you think of...

LONEY: Well...

GROSS: ... do you -- is that an accurate description, you were acting like a (INAUDIBLE)...

LONEY: Well, it...

GROSS: ... and (INAUDIBLE) bad hair (INAUDIBLE) tennis shoes?

LONEY: Yes, I mean, I -- I mean, I was still -- yes, I always dressed that way. I mean, I was definitely a tennis shoe kind of guy. I wasn't ever wearing that crushed velvet coats and, you know, riding jackets or any of that. I never went into that, the sort of Beau Brummels look.

But actually, you know, the Groovies, when I left, hadn't gotten into that area particularly either. I mean, it wasn't until long after I was gone that they sort of moved into the sort of -- the Beatle-y mod look.

But, yes, I never dressed for the occasion. You know, I always just wanted to be comfortable.

GROSS: When you left the band, the band continued without you, and, you know, went through changes of its own.

LONEY: Right.

GROSS: Did you spend a lot of time listening to the band afterwards, or did you not even want to think about it after you left?

LONEY: No, I had no problem with it. When I first left the band, they decided to change the name. They didn't think they could call it the Flamin' Groovies without me, so they called themselves the Dogs. And -- but they couldn't get booked as the Dogs. So they had to go back to the Flamin' Groovies, because it did have a little bit of a name value.

And the first song they ever recorded after I left was a thing called "Slow Death," which I co-wrote with Cyril. So they were still sort of sticking to my sound. The first two singles they did at United Artists were very much the original Groovies sound that I was part of.

It wasn't until the "Shake Some Action" album when they kind of moved into their new direction, the -- sort of the Mersey beat, Beatles sort of sound. And I liked it. First time I heard the "Shake Some Action" sides, I thought they were great, and I was really proud of Cyril. I thought he'd really done a great job.

GROSS: You didn't play, I understand, for about eight years after leaving the band?

LONEY: Yes, I -- like I say, I was sort of fed up with the music business, just sort of tired of the whole thing. So I sort of dropped out. I actually went to work for a record label. I worked for ABC Records, the now defunct ABC Records, for several years. I got married, I moved to Marin County, decided to be, you know, just sort of a regular guy.

But it was not to be. I guess I just can't be a regular guy. That lasted -- it lasted a while, lasted longer than I thought it would. But during that whole period, I was writing songs. I never stopped writing songs. So when I finally came out of that, I had about 200 songs, and I was ready to go back and do some recording.

GROSS: Do you still like to perform?

LONEY: Love it. You know, I started off as an actor, that's what I -- I always considered myself an actor who did a little singing on the side, pretty much. And I've always felt that my stage show was more of a performance than a -- you know, a concert. I always think of myself as a performer rather than a singer.

So, yes, it's my life blood, it's what I do. I can't not do it. I think I'd be violently ill if I couldn't perform.

GROSS: Given your acting background and your sense of it being a performance when you're on stage, do you think that you become a different character?

LONEY: I become a different character with every song, you know, it's, like -- a lot of the songs I write are from a point of view of a character, and I think I get into that character every time I do that song.

I'm kind of a Method singer, I think.

GROSS: (laughs) A Method singer-songwriter.

LONEY: There you go.

GROSS: Now, do you work in a record store now part-time?

LONEY: Yes, I actually manage Jack's Record Cellar, which is the oldest running record store here in San Francisco. It's been around since about '53.

GROSS: Is it used, or...

LONEY: Yes. It's, like, we have a lot of 78s, 45s, LPs. Most -- it's vinyl, not too much in the way of CDs. We're keeping analog pretty much. And 78s is our big thing. People really love the sound of 78s. I don't know if you've ever heard a mint 78, but it sounds better than anything. It sounds better than any CD or LP.

GROSS: Do you have a turntable that has a 78 function on it?

LONEY: Yes, sure do. You can still get them.

GROSS: So do you like being surrounded by records?

LONEY: Oh, yes. I mean, I guess I'm spoiled. I mean, I'm around great records all the time. That's -- you know, all day long, and just listen to music, you know, that's my job, and I love it, I love it. And that's -- I think that why I like all kinds of music, because I'm just constantly listening to new stuff, old stuff. And I just -- it's the job for me, totally.

GROSS: Tell me what...

LONEY: So envy me.

GROSS: When you see somebody, you know, buying a whole bunch of either interesting or really perplexing records, do you say anything to them, ever strike up conversations with the customers?

LONEY: Not really. I mean, yes, yes, I do sometimes. I mean, people have wide ranges of -- are -- you know, interests, obviously. But people come in, and all they want is Paul Peterson (ph)...

GROSS: (laughs)

LONEY: ... or they only connect -- you know (laughs) -- you know, they only collect...

GROSS: From the "Donna Reed Show."

LONEY: Yes, exactly, that's all they collect. They collect...

GROSS: Wait, what was his hit?

LONEY: "My Dad." It was called "My Dad." Did one big hit.

And then, you know, Patty Duke had records. There's people who collect just odd things, you know, and that's their whole shtick, you know. And then there are people who collect a little bit of everything. And the 78 people are especially that way. They -- you know, they tend to be all over the map.

But, no, I don't ever make derogatory comments about what they're buying. I used to, when I was younger and kind of a punk. I would always say, "You're not really buying that, are you?" you know. But, no, now I'm very cool about it.

And I just think music is a great -- it's the great communicator. And I think if it communicates to you, it's great.

GROSS: And what has a lot of cachet now that had none when (laughs) -- when you first started performing?

LONEY: Oh, I think -- you know, Bing Crosby. You know, early Bing Crosby a lot of people have turned on to. You know, there was a time when you'd say "Bing Crosby," sort of like that meant, you know, dead and past and gone, and, you know, completely not happening. But early Bing Crosby's pretty swinging and jazzy, and I...

GROSS: Well, especially the Rhythm Boys era.

LONEY: Oh, yes, exactly. That stuff is great, I think.

GROSS: Yes, I think so too.

LONEY: And a lot of young people are turning on to it. And I think it's good, it's healthy.

GROSS: Well, I want to thank you, Roy Loney, very much for talking with us.

LONEY: Oh, my pleasure.

GROSS: Roy Loney co-founded the Flamin' Groovies. Two of their CDs have just been reissued, "Flamingo" and "Teenage Head."

Coming up, John Powers reviews Albert Brooks' new film.

This is FRESH AIR.

(BREAK)

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: Roy A. Loney
High: Roy A. Loney was lead singer of the San Francisco band Flamin' Groovies in the 1960s. Buddha Records has re-issued their albums "Flamingo" and "Teenage Head," both out-of-print cult classics. Loney discusses his time with the Groovies, the Phantom Movers, and his new band, Fondellas.
Spec: Music Industry; Entertainment; Roy A. Loney

Please note, this is not the final feed of record

Copy: Content and programming copyright 1999 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 1999 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: The Return of the Flamin' Groovies

Show: FRESH AIR
Date: AUGUST 27, 1999
Time: 12:00
Tran: 082603NP.217
Type: FEATURE
Head: Review: "The Muse"
Sect: Entertainment
Time: 12:50

This is a rush transcript. This copy may not
be in its final form and may be updated.

GROSS: "The Muse" is a new comedy opening this week, written, directed, and starring Albert Brooks. It's a satire of the movie business and co-stars Sharon Stone as the Muse.

Our film critic, John Powers, has a review.

JOHN POWERS, FILM CRITIC: Over the last 20 years, our best comic filmmaker has been Albert Brooks. His finest movies -- "Modern Romance," "Lost in America," and "Mother" -- have made him Hollywood's most trenchant chronicler of upper middle-class life, with its love of German cars, yammering self-absorption, and touching attempts to escape the compulsive patterns that are the human equivalent of a Skinner box.

But while his films are classics, they're increasingly out of fashion in an industry that wants comedies like "American Pie" or "Big Daddy." This depressing reality forms the backdrop for "The Muse," which spins bright laughter out of show-biz disillusionment.

Brooks stars as Steven Phillips, a veteran screenwriter who begins the movie receiving a prestigious Hollywood prize for humanitarianism. The very next day, he's fired from his studio gig by a slithery executive who claims he's lost his edge.

Desperate to save his career, he runs to get help from his bronzed Oscar-winning friend Jack, played by Jeff Bridges. Incredibly, Jack says he owes his success to a muse named Sara. That's Sharon Stone.

Sara's the actual daughter of the Greek god Zeus, who gets people in touch with their creativity. She agrees to take on the frantic Steven as a client, but she does expect a few things in return, like gifts from Tiffany's and a $1,700-a-day suite at the Four Seasons.

Soon, the moody muse has taken over Steven's life, calling at midnight to demand Waldorf salad and threatening his precarious masculinity by encouraging his stay-at-home wife -- that's Andie McDowell -- to pursue her dream of becoming the next Mrs. Fields.

Brooks is our shrewdest observer of L.A. delusion, and "The Muse" glitters with an insider's bemusement at Hollywood's penchant for believing in supernatural quick fixes. It also paints a hilariously nasty portrait of the glib, know-nothing young men who now run the film business, as in the early scene when an exec takes Steven to lunch to discuss his new script.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP, "THE MUSE")

ACTOR: I read your script.

ALBERT BROOKS, ACTOR: And?

ACTOR: Well, let me put this in a form that isn't insulting, because I tend to be too direct. All my friends tell me that.

The script's no good.

BROOKS: That's the form that's not insulting? What would the insulting form be?

ACTOR: Good one!

BROOKS: What are you doing?

ACTOR: Oh, I write down lines I like. I like that line.

BROOKS: You know, I think that's called stealing.

So just cut to the chase. Just what exactly are you telling me?

ACTOR: We'd like you out of here by five.

BROOKS: What?

ACTOR: It would really help us out. Brian De Palma needs your office.

BROOKS: Well, you can't give Brian De Palma my office!

ACTOR: Well, it's not really your office. I mean, we're all just using space here. You know, I'm where Lucille Ball used to be.

BROOKS: Huh. Too bad you're not where she is now.

ACTOR: Good one.

BROOKS: You write that down, I'll cut off your hand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

POWERS: While Brooks's Hollywood jokes are uproarious, the idea of having a muse is potentially far richer, and Brooks turns it into a wittily acted portrait of the unruly workings of creativity.

Just as artists must bend their whole lives in the search for inspiration, keeping mad hours, cutting themselves off from loved ones, lubricating their libidos with liquor, so Steven discovers that the muse is a capricious benefactor. She may free his imagination to write that Jim Carrey summer blockbuster, but she also makes him slave to her desire to have her walls repainted, or to sleep in his marital bed.

In early films like "Modern Romance," Brooks pushed his ideas so far it drove most viewers crazy. Here, he doesn't push far enough. We keep waiting for Steven's relationship to the muse to take us somewhere wile and revelatory. But the movie lacks his usual precise structure.

Maybe Brooks' own muse abandoned him in the second half of the script. Maybe he thinks he's indulging the audience's desire for comedies that are merely a grab-bag of jokes. Or maybe he's simply dispirited by the stardom of Adam Sandler.

Whatever the reason, Brooks remains content to string together terrifically sharp bits, from an absurdly futile tennis match between Steven and Jack, to an uproarious cameo by adrenaline-powered Martin Scorsese, who, like James Cameron and Rob Reiner, is shown paying Tiffany tribute to the muse.

Brooks also gets a spirited performance from Stone, who clearly relishes playing a divine diva and flounces through the movie in fluttery turquoise outfits. She's a born comedienne who never seems to do comedy, and I haven't seen her look so relaxed in ages.

Brooks has recently married and had a child, and now that his personal life has grown happier, his onscreen persona seems to be calmer, less feverishly solipsistic. Here, he's even playing a family man.

But while "The Muse" is his slightest and most parochial film -- this time he's lost in Hollywood, not in America -- it made me laugh in ways that only he can. That's why you won't catch me accusing Albert Brooks of losing his edge.

GROSS: John Powers is film critic for "Vogue" and FRESH AIR.

(MUSICAL BRIDGE)

GROSS: FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our senior producer today was Roberta Shorrock. Bob Purdick (ph) is our engineer. Dorothy Farabee (ph) is our administrative assistant. Alan Tu directed the show.

I'm Terry Gross.

TO PURCHASE AN AUDIOTAPE OF THIS PIECE, PLEASE CALL 877-21FRESH
Dateline: Terry Gross, Philadelphia, PA
Guest: John Powers
High: "Vogue" film critic John Powers reviews the new Albert Brooks movie, "The Muse."
Spec: Movie Industry; Entertainment; Albert Brooks; "The Muse"

Please note, this is not the final feed of record

Copy: Content and programming copyright 1999 WHYY, Inc. All rights reserved. Transcribed by FDCH, Inc. under license from WHYY, Inc. Formatting copyright 1999 FDCH, Inc. All rights reserved. No quotes from the materials contained herein may be used in any media without attribution to WHYY, Inc. This transcript may not be reproduced in whole or in part without prior written permission.
End-Story: Review: "The Muse"
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.