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DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli, editor of the website TV Worth Watching, sitting in for Terry Gross. Today's guests are the star and the writer-director of an unusual film called "The Rider," which can now be watched on different streaming TV sites. Released to theaters this year, it's about a Native American rodeo rider and horse trainer who is recovering from a devastating rodeo accident and might no longer be able to ride again. You won't know the people in the cast. They're not professional actors. They're playing slightly fictionalized versions of themselves. We're going to be joined by the film's star Brady Jandreau who was badly injured in a rodeo accident and the film's writer-director Chloe Zhao. Zhao is a Chinese-born, U.S.-based filmmaker who shot this film and her 2015 film "Songs My Brothers Taught Me" on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation in South Dakota. Before we meet them, let's hear what film critic Justin Chang thought of the film.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)
JUSTIN CHANG, BYLINE: "The Rider" is a stunningly lyrical contemporary Western, a hymn to the beauty of endless prairies, majestic sunsets and strapping young men on horseback. But the filmmaker, Chloe Zhao, doesn't drown the myth of the American cowboy in Hollywood gloss. She strips it down to its raw, aching essence. She steeps us in the rhythms of life on South Dakota's Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, where young Lakota men wear chaps and Stetsons and harbor dreams of rodeo stardom.
Zhao was directing her first feature, "Songs My Brothers Taught Me," when she met Brady Jandreau, a bronco rider of Lakota descent. Jandreau was well on his way to becoming a rodeo legend, until April 2016, when a serious riding accident left him with a near-fatal head wound. Shortly afterward, Zhao began filming him and his friends and family, piecing together a story about a cowboy's tough physical and emotional recovery. The result is a seamless, collaborative merging of narrative and documentary storytelling in which every scene, even when heightened for dramatic effect, has a bone-deep authenticity.
As the movie opens, Brady Blackburn, as he's been renamed here, has just discharged himself from the hospital and is peeling off his surgical bandages. He has a steel plate in his head and a long gash running down his scalp. He also has alarming seizures that cause his right hand to tighten up uncontrollably. But he has no intention of listening to his doctors, who have warned him against ever riding again. Later that morning, he's practicing roping a dummy bronco outside his family's trailer home when his dad, Wayne, shows up.
(SOUNDBITE OF FILM, "THE RIDER")
TIM JANDREAU: (As Wayne Blackburn) What the hell are you doing here? You're supposed to be up in the hospital. I seen Tanner at the bar. He said you escaped, huh?
BRADY JANDREAU: (As Brady Blackburn) Told you to check me out.
T. JANDREAU: (As Wayne Blackburn) Well, the doctor said you're supposed to stay up there. Give me a hug.
B. JANDREAU: (As Brady Blackburn) Why don't you go inside and sober up?
T. JANDREAU: (As Wayne Blackburn) Sober up? Let me see you rope that. Checking yourself out of the hospital like your Uncle Roddy. (Laughter). What the hell? Can't you rope anymore?
CHANG: That's Jandreau's real-life father, Tim, and you can hear the conflicting impulses in his gruff delivery - the clumsy, boozy affection, the impulse to scold his son for not listening to orders, but also to mock him for being damaged goods. It helps that the older Jandreau has a movie star's wiley charisma, and he's passed that gift on to his son. Brady Jandreau may be playing a fictionalized version of himself, but few professionally trained actors could achieve the heartbreaking gravity that he packs into a single downward glance.
No less than his horses, he's an extraordinarily magnetic camera subject. Also playing herself is Lilly Jandreau, Brady's younger sister, who lovingly helped steer him through his recovery. She has Asperger's syndrome, and their mutual sense of protectiveness provides some of the film's warmest moments. Then there's Brady's close friend, Lane Scott, a former bull rider who's shown paralyzed and unable to speak due to a car crash in real life. Though, the movie doesn't specify, leaving us to assume another riding accident. Either way, Scott remains a spirited optimist, telling Brady in sign language to throw some dirt on his wound and not give up.
Zhao doesn't reduce her actors to their disabilities or milk their setbacks for easy emotions. Working with the cinematographer Joshua James Richards, she captures the feel of everyday life in this community with an almost unbearable poignancy. She turns a simple drama of personal struggle into a wounding portrait of masculinity in crisis. Brady tries to move on, getting a job at a supermarket, and, at one point, almost pawning his saddle. But when we see him leading a horse around its enclosure, riding it, talking to it and praying over it, we see a man doing what he was clearly born to do. How do you carry on when the only dream you've ever known has been ripped away?
Zhao captures the exhilarating sense of liberation that rodeo riders must feel, even if only for eight seconds at a time. But she also conveys how few other options there are for a community whose traditions have been codified into ritual. At times, she makes these wide open plains feel downright claustrophobic. "The Rider" may be a movie about someone literally trying to get back on that horse, but there's also a subtler metaphor at work. Throughout the movie, we see Brady repeatedly using his good hand to assist his injured one, prying open his clenched grip. It's a fitting, heartbreaking image for the pain and necessity of letting go.
BIANCULLI: Justin Chang is a film critic for The LA Times. Earlier this year, Terry Gross spoke with the star of "The Rider," Brady Jandreau, who is a Lakota Indian from the Pine Ridge Reservation where "The Rider" was filmed. She also spoke to the movie's writer-director Chloe Zhao.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)
TERRY GROSS, BYLINE: Brady Jandreau, Chloe Zhao, welcome to FRESH AIR, and congratulations on this beautiful movie. Brady, I want to ask first, how are you now? Have you fully recovered from your head injury? Are there lasting effects you're still dealing with?
B. JANDREAU: You know, I mean, I struggle with a little bit of, like, short-term memory stuff. But other than that, I mean, I've pretty well recovered.
GROSS: And so you're riding?
B. JANDREAU: Not in rodeos, but I'm training wild horses again. I was a month-and-a-half after my head injury.
GROSS: Wow. What actually happened to you?
B. JANDREAU: I was participating at the PRCA rodeo in Fargo, N.D., and I was riding in the saddle bronc riding. And I was nearing the whistle and trying to stay on for the eight seconds to get a score. And I come off the side, and my foot hung in the stirrup and caused me to swing underneath the horse. And where my - and the horse stepped on my head while it was bucking and pulled me out of the stirrup, and it crushed my skull. It was a comminuted fracture, meaning shattered. And it was 3 1/4 inches in length, three-quarters of an inch wide and about an inch and a quarter deep into my brain cavity.
GROSS: Oh, my God.
B. JANDREAU: Caused a significant amount of bleeding. I actually didn't lose consciousness until I went into a seizure at the hospital, which was only, like, 11 minutes away.
GROSS: So now you have a steel plate in your head?
B. JANDREAU: I don't think it's made out of steel because it doesn't beep when I go through the monitors.
GROSS: Oh.
(LAUGHTER)
B. JANDREAU: I believe it's actually, like, titanium or something.
GROSS: I see. I see. You mentioned the whistle. I don't think most of our listeners will be familiar with the eight seconds. Can you explain...
B. JANDREAU: Yeah.
GROSS: ...The eight seconds and the whistle?
B. JANDREAU: Well, when participating in the rough stock events rodeo, either bareback riding, saddle bronc riding or bull riding, you're required to stay mounted on the animal with your free hand in the air for eight seconds from the time the horse's or bull's head breaks the plane of the chute once the door is opened, the gate. And there's a whistle blown at the eight-second mark to notify the rider that he has made a qualified ride and is free to dismount the animal.
GROSS: And then riders come up, and you can mount one of their horses to get off the bucking bronco.
B. JANDREAU: In the bareback riding and saddle bronc riding, yes. They're called the pickup men. They're in the arena to make sure that nothing goes wrong. In the bull riding, there are two or three bull fighters in the arena, and they get the bull's attention so that when the rider dismounts, the bull won't be right on top of them when they hit the ground.
GROSS: Do you have memories of the actual accident?
B. JANDREAU: I remember the horse bucking away from me. I remember the bull fighter coming up to me who was helping and telling me to stay down, they're bringing a stretcher and all that. And I was trying to get up, and they were like, no, you've got to stay down. You got a broken neck. And they started treating me for a broken neck, and I said, no, my head. It's my head. I can feel my feet. Look; I can move. They were like, don't move your legs; don't move your legs. I was like, I can move them. It's my head. And they started to kind of look at the wound on my head. I had very long hair at the time, and the step actually didn't puncture my skin very much. It was, like, a small cut. And the bleeding - about 90 percent of the bleeding, if not more, was going on inside of my brain cavity.
GROSS: Wow.
B. JANDREAU: And because of the small puncture, not very much of it was able to come out. My wound was listed as contaminated 'cause it had horse manure and sand and hair and other things in there. And I was conscious clear to the hospital. And when - like I said, when I got there, they started asking me questions, and I went into a full-body convulsive seizure. And they induced coma and did surgery.
GROSS: Wow. Now, you know, in the movie, your character, who's kind of you - I mean, you're playing a version of yourself - watches getting thrown and stomped on a video that was made of the event. Is that the actual video of what happened to you?
B. JANDREAU: That is 100 percent the actual video.
GROSS: What was it like for you to watch it?
B. JANDREAU: I've watched that, you know, dozens of times. To be honest, that phone is broken now. So the only time I can watch it is when I watch the movie.
(LAUGHTER)
B. JANDREAU: But I don't have much of a problem with that.
GROSS: With watching it?
B. JANDREAU: It kind of - honestly, I kind of like to think of it as it didn't really happen to me. It happened to Brady Blackburn (laughter).
GROSS: Oh, to your character in the movie. Yeah (laughter).
B. JANDREAU: Yeah, yeah.
GROSS: Let's take a short break here, and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guests are Brady Jandreau, who plays a slightly fictionalized version of himself in the new film "The Rider," and Chloe Zhao, the film's director. We'll talk more after we take a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
TERRY GROSS, BYLINE: This is FRESH AIR. And if you're just joining us, I have two guests. Brady Jandreau plays a fictionalized version of himself in the new film "The Rider." He was a rodeo rider and horse trainer who two years ago was in a rodeo riding accident that resulted in a brain injury and a plate having to be placed in his smashed skull. It meant having to rethink his life, which was based around riding and training horses, which is exactly what his doctors told him he should no longer do, at least not for a while. My other guest is Chloe Zhao, who directed the film and conceived of the film. It's the second film she made on the Pine Ridge Lakota Sioux Reservation in South Dakota.
Now, I mean, your doctors told you you couldn't ride again and that you certainly couldn't do rodeo again. I know someone with a relatively minor concussion who had trouble riding the train afterwards 'cause it was such a dizzying experience because of the concussion. Real concussions are so much worse than they're always made to seem in movies, like where the detective gets whacked on the head with a pistol, he's knocked unconscious, he wakes up with a headache and that's the last we hear about the concussion, you know? It's not that way in real life. But it sounds like you started riding, like, long before your doctor said that you should do it. What did the doctors tell you? How soon did you start riding, and did you do it sooner than they said you should like I think you did?
BRADY JANDREAU: OK, so on April Fool's Day of 2016 was the day I was injured. And like I said, I went in there and they did surgery and they induced coma. About three - well, it was over a five-day span because I woke up officially on the 5. But on the 4, I woke up and under the induction of coma and pulled the respirator out of my chest and started to pull my IVs out. And they did a breathing test to see if I could breathe on my own. And I failed the first two tests, and then I passed the third one. And then they figured, OK, it's time to drop the induction, see if you can wake up. You know, they had a pretty good idea I could 'cause I was waking up under the induction. So they dropped it, and I woke up.
I couldn't talk right at first. I had very blurry vision in my left eye. And I couldn't - it sounded like my left ear was filled with water. I'm not sure if that was blood in my ear or what. But after that, they told me that I needed to stay there. I have to stay in the hospital. And I told them that I'm not going to. I'm not going to lay here and rot. And they said, OK, well, we can't legally hold you if you can take your medication orally, go to the bathroom on your own, perform daily tasks such as walking, dressing yourself, other things like that, take your medication in pill form. And I walked to the line like I was 17 walking for the cops, you know, after I had too much drink.
(LAUGHTER)
JANDREAU: And I just - I told them my eye was good. And I told them that everything felt great and they needed to let me out of there. And I took the pills, and then they walked out of the room. And I threw them up in the trash can. And I was out of there. So I got down the road a little ways, had a pinch of Copenhagen, ate at a chuck wagon. And I've been pretty well good ever since. But I never returned to the hospital at all. And then I couldn't take it any longer. Two weeks after I got home, I rode Gus again, a very well-trained horse that was like a brother to me growing up, I mean, if you can imagine an animal being like a brother to someone (laughter). So I had a lot of trust in him, you know. I knew I was pretty well safe. And a month and a half after the injury, I actually went flat broke. And unlike in the movie where I work at a grocery store, I went back to doing the only thing I know how to do and what I love to do, which is training wild horses for the public. So...
GROSS: But the thing is, like, you're supposed to - after a head injury like that, you're supposed to, I think, prevent your brain from getting jostled. But the point is you've been ignoring (laughter) what the doctors say. And it's not advice I'd give other people, but I'm really glad that you're OK. Was giving up rodeo hard? 'Cause that you never went back to. Like, that was too risky even for you to (laughter) think of doing again.
JANDREAU: Well, to be completely frank with you, Ma'am, I'd say training horses...
GROSS: Oh, is more dangerous?
JANDREAU: ...Is more dangerous because it's so unpredictable. The only thing that you can predict their actions through is your connection with the animal. And like I say, I mean, even if the horse stumbled and fell down, like, my dad a few months ago broke his leg when a horse slipped and fell down on him. If, like, say a horse were to fall down and I were to hit my head off a rock or a post or anything, you know, typically I'm about 55, 60 miles from any reputable hospital when I'm training horses. And a lot of times, it's just me out there. So...
GROSS: OK. You haven't reassured me, but that was a very interesting answer.
(LAUGHTER)
JANDREAU: Yeah, so that's what I'm saying. I think that training horses is probably more dangerous.
GROSS: The scenes in the movie where you're training horses are so just beautiful to watch. And like, are we seeing you train horses for real in those scenes?
JANDREAU: Yes.
GROSS: Wow. It's just beautiful. And, you know, one of the things interesting to me is that the first thing you do in those scenes when you're training a new horse is put out your hand for the horse to sniff. And that's something that a lot of us do when we're meeting a new cat or a new dog. And it's interesting that that's the first thing you would do with a horse.
JANDREAU: A horse, you know, they can't say, hi, how are you? I'm so-and-so, you know? So they communicate through typically smelling or, you know, just body language. And when a horse approaches another horse, the first thing they do is they smell noses. If I were to put my face up close to a horse, he'd probably be a little bit intimidated. So, like, a horse's neck is long, like an extension, just like my arms. I'd put my hand up to their face and let them smell it, just like I'm another horse approaching them to, you know, smell their nose as well.
GROSS: And then, other things that you do, you get closer to them. You kind of pet them. And, slowly, you put a little bit of your weight on the horse without fully mounting it. Can you talk a little bit - can you describe for us, for those of us who have never seen a horse broken, just a few of the steps that you take to do it and what it's like for you to be experiencing this growing relationship between you and the horse?
JANDREAU: It's all through the connection. And the only way that they know how to communicate is through body language, you know, things like that. And I can't just whiny to them, and they come running, you know? So, like, a horse, typically, if they show their rear to you it's because they feel threatened by you. They want to escape from you, and they might even kick you 'cause, like I said, they feel threatened. They're going to protect themselves. When a horse offers their face to you, they're interested in what you are, what you're doing. They're paying attention.
And, typically, like, when I would let a horse smell my hand, then the first thing I would do is, like, pet them on the nose. And then, I would, like, I wouldn't just reach back and grab them on the leg after that, or else they'd kick my head off. But if I slowly pet and slowly work my way back - but as soon as - you know, say I'm getting by a horse's shoulder, and he gets nervous. I have to go back to the nose and restart. And, typically, back to the shoulder will be easy. And then from that point on, you know, you've got to keep that connection and slowly work your way back. Eventually, horses will let me touch their hind legs or tail and slide off their butt and crawl underneath their belly, do whatever because they trust me.
But it takes some time - I wouldn't say some time. You have to do the proper things to communicate with them for them to allow you to do everything because there's no way you could force, you know, a thousand-pound, 1,500-pound, maybe even more, you know, animal to do what you want to do. You have to make what you want look appealing to them. You guys have to make an agreement on the matter.
DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
Brady Jandreau is the Lakota Indian star of "The Rider." The film's writer-director is Chloe Zhao. The movie is now available on different streaming sites. We'll continue Terry's interview with them after a break. I'm David Bianculli, and this is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF BOBBY TIMMONS' "SOFT TALK")
BIANCULLI: This is FRESH AIR. I'm David Bianculli in for Terry Gross back with more of Terry's interview from earlier this year with Brady Jandreau, star of the film "The Rider," and Chloe Zhao, who wrote and directed the film. It's now available on different TV streaming sites. Jandreau plays a fictionalized version of himself in the film. He was a rodeo rider and horse trainer who, two years ago, was in a rodeo riding accident that resulted in a brain injury that meant having to rethink his life and career.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)
GROSS: You know, we use the expression to break a horse. That sounds kind of violent, like you're - you know. So that's not what you're - you're kind of taming a horse...
JANDREAU: OK. Yeah...
GROSS: ...Or creating relationship with a horse. But what does that - do you like using that word? And...
JANDREAU: No, I don't. You know, I mean, honestly, like, I grew up and that's what people, you know, around horses they usually say. They call it breaking them. And there are many, many trainers who still break horses, meaning, like, almost break their spirit to the point - and subdue them and submit them, cause them to submit to them.
GROSS: Right, break their will. Yeah.
JANDREAU: Yeah, by tying them certain ways or working them so hard to where they're so tired they cannot - you know, they can't resist. What I choose to do is just - like I'm hanging out with them, and it's just training them through the connection. I wouldn't - yeah, breaking is not the right word for it, but it's just the word - the terminology that I'm used to.
GROSS: Do you think there's something in it for the horse when the horse develops a relationship with a human and learns to accept that the human's going to ride them and also feed them and care for them? Like, I know what's in it for the people. What's in it for the horse?
JANDREAU: Well, you know, when a horse connects with you, there is something in it for them because, like, for their health and I believe also in a relationship with a person. Like, many horses we save off of kill trucks. They take horses - well, there's no legal slaughter of horses in the United States now. But there's still legal slaughter of horses in Canada. So, like, typically when a horse - say there's, like, a horse that has never been trained, and he's much too wild or much too old for your average trainer to have a go at him. They'll typically sell him. And nobody can ride the horse, so he typically goes and becomes glue or dog food or whatever, you know, sent to France or - and, you know, the horse Apollo in the movie was one of the horses that I actually saved off of the kill truck.
GROSS: Oh, you're kidding. This is one of the...
JANDREAU: Yeah.
GROSS: ...Horses you tame in the movie, a beautiful horse.
JANDREAU: Apollo, he actually had passed away by the time the shoot began. He was probably 8 or 9 years old. And he was really wild and really big, you know? Most people wouldn't have messed with him. But I seen something in Apollo that you don't see in every horse.
CHLOE ZHAO: Beautiful buckskin.
JANDREAU: Yeah. Even though he was - he was big, yellow. And even though he was wild, I felt as though he had a lot to offer. He had a very, very - like, when I look into a horse's eyes, they say more to me than you have said to me in this entire conversation.
GROSS: Thank you (laughter).
ZHAO: (Laughter) No offense.
JANDREAU: Yeah. No offense to you, but that's...
GROSS: No offense taken.
ZHAO: That's how Brady - he relates to horses more than people.
JANDREAU: Yeah.
GROSS: (Laughter) That's OK.
JANDREAU: So, yeah, and Apollo, he would have had to go to a kill truck, but I knew there was good in him. And so I broke him. He was difficult to break. And for the first, you know, about two months we owned him, nobody else could ride him but me. But once he was finished out, he was probably one of the best horses I ever rode. Like, say he were to get...
GROSS: What happened to him?
JANDREAU: Like say he were to get - he got into the wire, just like in the movie.
GROSS: In the barbed wire.
JANDREAU: Yeah, that was not a - that was a recreation. That was a fictional - that was make up on the horse in the movie. But Apollo's injury was much, much worse than the horse in the movie. It was much higher in the thick part, the gaskin of the horse's leg. And it sawed completely to the bone before he came in the next day. And I had rode him the day before that. It's not like he'd been out getting neglected or anything. He just - he went out, and he probably walked by a patch of bushes. And a coyote was sleeping there, and he probably jumped out. And he probably took off running, nervous, you know, and got into the wire in a bad way. And like I said, it was - it caught him in, like, a loop. And it had - and from him trying to free himself over those few hours, it had actually sawed the barbed wire into his, you know, down to his femur basically.
GROSS: Wow. Did you have to put him down?
JANDREAU: No, my dad did it, like in the movie.
GROSS: Yeah.
JANDREAU: But, yeah, I loved Apollo. I really hope to get to see him again up in the sky someday.
GROSS: That must be so hard. I mean, like, with a cat or a dog, at least, you know, where I live, you take the animal to the vet, and the vet puts the animal down. But with horses, it's often, you know, like, the human who shoots the horse. It's an instantaneous death, I guess.
JANDREAU: Well, when you...
GROSS: But that must be so difficult to be part of.
JANDREAU: If you've ever seen, like, a cow or a horse die of natural causes, it's probably the most sickening thing you could ever imagine. Die on their own from natural causes - literally, when a horse become - or a cow gets down, meaning they are to the point where they cannot get up under their own will, they will keep attempting to get up. And when their legs aren't working for them, they will use their head, and they will literally hit their head off of the ground until they die. So that is probably the least humane thing to do, is to just let them die on their own. If I were to load Apollo on the trailer, I mean, could you imagine walking up a flight of stairs with one leg? That's about what it would have been like. He would've had to stand in that moving trailer all the way to the vet for an hour and 10 minutes or so and - where he would have to be unloaded, put in a separate pen, wait until the vet was ready, because obviously, there was no way to predict this injury. And there, he would be euthanized, which is not instantaneous.
GROSS: See, I didn't know all this, so I wasn't able to think that through. And it seems much more humane to just put him down yourself and spare the horse all of that.
JANDREAU: There was only one thing to do.
GROSS: Yeah, yeah. So Chloe, what you do in your films - at least, in the first two films that you've made - is cast people to play slightly fictionalized versions of themselves. It's not just Brady who plays a fictionalized version of himself. His father is in the film playing his father. His sister is in the film playing his sister. His friends are in the film playing his friends. Let's start with his family. Did you have to work hard to convince them to be a part of the film? And I'll mention that his father isn't always painted in the most flattering light in this. His father has gambled away the rent money, so, like, the family is totally broke in the movie. I don't know if it happened that way in real life, but, you know, people will confuse real life with the fictionalized version. So how is his father with playing this role?
ZHAO: Well, this is why - Tim Jandreau is his dad's name, and he's - his character's name is completely changed, not just the last name. It's Wayne Blackburn because Tim in real life, I think, is a better father than I've portrayed him in the film, you know? But I think, you know, this is a fiction film. And I - this is how I explain to the - to everyone who's involved. You're free to keep your real name if you want to, and you can be as comfortable to be yourself as possible, but you are playing fictionalized characters. So, you know, Tim would probably feel comfortable with me saying that he's made some mistakes as a parent, like all parents do, but it's not like that in the film.
JANDREAU: Yeah, my dad - I mean, we've had our ups and downs, you know, just like any father and son probably has. But, you know, we get along really good, honestly. You know, I mean, everybody makes mistakes. But, I mean - that's what I mean - you know, everybody, you know? So I don't know. My dad is, for lack of a better term, not as much as of an ass [expletive] as he is in the film.
(LAUGHTER)
ZHAO: He's old-school. He's old-school.
JANDREAU: Yeah.
GROSS: Chloe, how did you first get the idea of combining real people and real people's lives in a fictionalized version?
ZHAO: You either work with limitation or you let it work you, you know? We, as a women - Chinese women filmmaker with not much connections and to come to America and say, like, I want to make films on a reservation with kids there - back in 2010 to '13, it was a tough time for the country, financially, and for the industry, for everybody. No one was going to just throw me money to do it. So, you know, it was a blessing in disguise because that style come out of - for us to be friends with the limitations that we have, including the way we shoot, the time of day we shoot, you know, and who we cast and all that stuff and how we run the set.
GROSS: Well, let me reintroduce you both. If you're just joining us, my guests are Brady Jandreau, who plays a slightly fictionalized version of himself in the new film "The Rider," and Chloe Zhao, the film's director who also conceived the movie. We'll talk more after we take a short break. This is FRESH AIR.
(SOUNDBITE OF CUONG VU AND PAT METHENY'S "SEEDS OF DOUBT")
GROSS: This is FRESH AIR, and if you're just joining us, I have two guests. Brady Jandreau plays a fictionalized version of himself in the new film "The Rider." He was a rodeo rider and horse trainer who, two years ago, was in a rodeo riding accident that resulted in a skull and brain injury. It was so severe that he now has a plate in his head. It meant having to rethink his life, which was based around riding and training horses, which is exactly what his doctors told him he should no longer do. But he still trains horses. But he no longer rides on the radio - in the rodeo.
So Brady, what is your life like now? I know you're still working with horses. Like, what exactly are you doing?
JANDREAU: Actually, since the shoot, I've started a breeding program called the Jandreau Performance Horses. We raise American quarter horses, all registered through the AQHA. And we train them to do everything from rodeo events to - not the bucking events, of course, the other events such as the timed events where you ride a very well-trained horse to perform a task. And I also train them to do, like, mounted shooting, hunting horses, just pleasure-riding horses. About anything that you could name, we could train, so...
GROSS: And where do get your horses from now?
JANDREAU: Well, I raise them. You know, I also take in horses...
GROSS: Oh, so it's a breeding - right, it's a breeding program.
JANDREAU: Yep. And I also take in horses from the public to be trained for a set number of days for a specific amount of pay.
GROSS: How many horses do you have now?
JANDREAU: We have around 20 registered broodmares, so that means about 20 babies born each year. You cannot break a horse until they're about 2 years old. You can halter break them, meaning teach them how to lead and stuff, if you choose to, but you can't really break them until they're 2 because there aren't developed enough, you know what I mean? It would be like a 5-year-old playing football or something, you know?
GROSS: So, you know, to sum up, like, your life was profoundly changed by your head injury from the rodeo. And it looked like maybe you'd have to change your identity altogether, that you'd have to give up riding, that you'd have to give up rodeo. And you've taken, like, a curve, but - you know, 'cause you're no longer doing rodeo. But you're still riding. You're raising horses. Horses are still central to your life. And I guess you must be so grateful for that.
JANDREAU: Yeah. I mean, it makes you feel close to God - you know? - just to be in their presence.
GROSS: Did you ever think you'd really have to give it up?
JANDREAU: You know, there was a point when I definitely had to think about whether or not I was going to. You know, there was a lot of thoughts that went through my head after my injury - you know, I mean, a lot of different emotions and, you know, some of which were very nearly impossible to control. But, yeah, like I said, it was something I thought about. And I rode - like I said, I rode Gus again just two weeks after my head injury just to make sure that my balance was OK, that I was able to mount them. And then it started eating at me to the point to where I knew what I had to do, and I knew what I was going to do. And the rest was up to faith and my connection with the animal.
GROSS: Brady, what was your first horse - the first time you had, like, a close relationship with a horse?
JANDREAU: The very first time that I ever could control a horse on my own - like, my daughter, she's already ridden 22 horses - you know, us holding her up there, you know?
GROSS: How old is she?
JANDREAU: She's only 9 months old.
GROSS: Oh, God (laughter).
JANDREAU: She will be 9 months old in two weeks, and she's ridden 22 different horses, ridden about 45 times. And, you know, I grew up the same way. But I could actually control a horse - he was a very well-trained horse. His name was Pardner (ph), and he was a full-size horse. He was probably about 18 years old, which is pretty old. Usually, they've calmed down quite a bit by then. And he would actually - like, I would ride him bareback because there was no saddle that would fit me because I was only a year and a half of age. I still...
GROSS: Wow, you were riding bareback at a year and a half.
JANDREAU: Yeah, because there was no - I, you know - and if - my dad said if I would start to go a little bit off to - you know, this is without any lead rope, nobody on there with me. Like, this was literally me riding alone with nothing - on a horse with nothing but a bridle and reins. And my dad said I would start kind of falling off to one side, and that horse would go right back underneath me, and I'd start falling off the other. He'd go back underneath me the other way and...
ZHAO: To keep you on him.
JANDREAU: To keep me on his back.
GROSS: And here's a question for you, Chloe. You capture, like, the beauty of the landscape in South Dakota. And the outdoors is so - just, it's so open, but the indoors are so cramped. You know, like, the family lives in basically, like, a trailer. Were you looking for that contrast between the indoors and the outdoors?
ZHAO: Yeah, I am. And if you go to the reservation, I think you will find a lot of that. And again, you know, it's that thing that happened historically when you discontinue people's culture and their connection with the land. Even though this beauty happening right, you know, in their backyard, not everybody can see it. And this is why I really want to tell Brady's story because he sees it, and he works with it. And he make it a part of who he is, and that's some healing that these young people could start doing, you know, for their people. So it's so important for me to - and for my whole team to be able to capture the reservation, South Dakota, the Badlands in a way that you understand why he'd choose that lifestyle. And he's not even given the opportunity moving to a big city.
GROSS: Chloe, did Brady teach you how to ride?
(LAUGHTER)
ZHAO: Yes. Yes, he did. And I had some really great lessons and then made me really cool when I go back to my friends.
(LAUGHTER)
ZHAO: And then there are times where I - you know, it's one thing looking at a horse in the movie or in a picture or have a - like, a teddy bear growing up. But when I'm sitting on the horse, you know, and looking down at his ears and I - it's a powerful animal. You know, it really is. It's a powerful animal, and the only way that they're going to let you on their back is this mutual understanding and respect. And Brady always tell me, don't be scared, Chloe. They can smell your fear. And I was like, yeah, I can smell my fear, too.
(LAUGHTER)
ZHAO: Because you feel it, you know, between your legs. It's so powerful. And gosh, and it just - again, you feel so close to nature through these animals. And if I have kids - and when I have kids, I really want them to be around horses and animals.
GROSS: I want to thank you both so much, and I want to congratulate you on the wonderful film. Thank you.
JANDREAU: Well, thank you.
ZHAO: Thank you so much. Thank you.
BIANCULLI: Horse trainer Brady Jandreau and writer-director Chloe Zhao speaking to Terry Gross earlier this year. Their film "The Rider" is now available on several streaming sites. Coming up, my very favorite television experience of the year. This is FRESH AIR.
DAVID BIANCULLI, HOST:
This is FRESH AIR. Next week, we'll be featuring interviews with some of the actors, writers and producers who have been nominated for Emmy awards this year, including comedy host John Oliver from HBO's "Last Week Tonight," supporting actor Brian Tyree Henry, who plays Paper Boi on FX's "Atlanta" and writer-producer Scott Frank, creator of the Netflix Western series "Godless."
Today we'll end the show with my recent review of a TV segment by another of this year's Emmy nominees, James Corden, host of "The Late Late Show" on CBS. This segment in which Corden did a Carpool Karaoke visit with Paul McCartney was presented again in prime time this week as an expanded CBS special. Before it first aired, Corden tweeted that it was, quote, "quite possibly the best Carpool Karaoke we've done so far," unquote. As far as I'm concerned, there's no possibly about it. It is the best. And in one month, it's attracted more than 30 million views on YouTube alone. Here's what I said when the segment first aired.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED BROADCAST)
BIANCULLI: By now, James Corden has set a very high standard with his Carpool Karaoke TV pieces. Only a million or two viewers watch his late-night CBS show when it's broadcast, but YouTube and other social media sites extend Corden's reach phenomenally. When he was in London two years ago, he took Adele on a karaoke car ride, and their spontaneous sing-along and conversation has been viewed on YouTube as of this week almost 182 million times. Few things on TV or the Internet can generate as much pure joy as a solid Carpool Karaoke segment.
But even by those standards the new one showcasing Sir Paul McCartney stands above all others. In only a few days, it's been viewed on YouTube more than 14 million times and with very good reason. Not only does it have all the happiness and goofiness you expect Corden to deliver, but this McCartney karaoke is unexpectedly tender, touching and meaningful as well. Most Carpool Karaoke segments stay in the car and on the road.
But Corden takes McCartney to his hometown of Liverpool and a trip down memory lane - or in this case down Penny Lane. And while Corden drives down that famous street, McCartney's Beatles song of the same name plays on the car stereo, and the two men happily sing along. McCartney enjoys himself so much that he plays tour guide during the song's instrumental breaks and ends his patter with the expert timing of a veteran DJ, stopping just before the lyrics resume.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN")
PAUL MCCARTNEY: I used to be in the choir at that church.
JAMES CORDEN: That church there?
MCCARTNEY: St. Barnabas, yeah.
CORDEN: That - you were in the choir?
MCCARTNEY: I was a choirboy.
CORDEN: Thank God for that choir.
MCCARTNEY: Yes.
CORDEN: The voice it's given us.
MCCARTNEY: Yes, indeed. And my brother got married in that church.
CORDEN: No way.
MCCARTNEY: Legendary. Yes, he is. He says hi, by the way.
PAUL MCCARTNEY AND JAMES CORDEN: (Singing) Penny Lane is in my ears and my eyes.
BIANCULLI: The mood switches when Corden asks McCartney about the inspirational positivity of so many of his songs. McCartney tells the story of being visited in a dream by his late mother, who advised him that things would be all right and to let it be. McCartney wrote the song "Let It Be" as a result. And as he and Corden finished singing along to it in the car, Corden was wiping away tears.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN")
MCCARTNEY AND CORDEN: (Singing) There will be an answer. Let it be.
CORDEN: Oh, man. It got me emotional there, Paul.
MCCARTNEY: It did. It did.
CORDEN: I didn't feel it coming. It's too much for me. I was - I couldn't feel - I didn't see that one coming around the corner (laughter).
MCCARTNEY: That's great, man. You're - tell you that is the power of music. It's weird - isn't it? - how that can do that to you?
CORDEN: Well, I can remember my granddad, who's a musician, and my dad sitting me down and saying, we're going to play you the best song you've ever heard. And I remember them playing me that.
MCCARTNEY: Really?
CORDEN: If my granddad was here right now, he'd get an absolute kick out of this.
MCCARTNEY: He is.
BIANCULLI: In the car, McCartney also sings a few verses from the first song he ever wrote, then teams with Corden for an energetic duet of "Come On To Me," a new song from McCartney's forthcoming album "Egypt Station." And of course, since they were driving in Liverpool, they also sang along to "Drive My Car," with Corden providing perfectly timed car horn blasts. All that would have been enough for a Carpool Karaoke segment. But this nearly 24-minute piece was just getting started.
Using "Penny Lane" as a jumping-off point, Corden took McCartney to old places from his childhood - a barbershop, a florist, even his childhood home, which is now a tourist attraction run by the National Trust. McCartney stepped inside for the first time since he moved away and gave Corden and us a time travel visit inside his home, including his memories of the bathroom where he sat and strummed guitar and sang as a kid because of the echo from the bathroom tiles.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN")
MCCARTNEY: There's the bog, which was the acoustic chamber.
CORDEN: The acoustic chamber.
MCCARTNEY: (Singing) Everything sounds better in a bog.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCARTNEY: Doesn't it?
CORDEN: Absolutely.
BIANCULLI: And finally, McCartney and Corden descend on a local Liverpool pub for a surprise appearance. On cue - and the cue was the opening chord of "A Hard Day's Night" - the curtain opens, and McCartney and his band stunned the unsuspecting pub patrons with a five-song set. It was like the Beatles on the rooftop in "Let It Be," an unexpected, unbilled, amazing moment of musical history. Then McCartney invited Corden to join them for the final number, which he did on "Hey Jude."
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN")
MCCARTNEY AND CORDEN: (Singing) Hey, Jude, don't be afraid. You were made to go out and get her. The minute you let her under your skin, then you'll begin to make it better, better, better, better, better, better. Come on. Na na na na na na na, na na na na (ph), hey, Jude.
BIANCULLI: The Paul McCartney Carpool Karaoke ranks right now as my favorite TV moment of the year. And on behalf of Corden, McCartney and the band, with a nod to that famous rooftop concert, I'd like to say they all passed the audition. Fifty-four years after appearing on "The Ed Sullivan Show," Paul McCartney is still making exciting, unforgettable television.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN")
CORDEN: Here we go.
MCCARTNEY: (Vocalizing).
(APPLAUSE)
MCCARTNEY AND CORDEN: (Singing) Say now, I saw you flash a smile.
BIANCULLI: On Monday's show, we begin a week of Emmy-nominated guests, starting with John Oliver, host of HBO's "Last Week Tonight," who tells us about taking a close and comic look at a subject like NRATV. Also, Brian Tyree Henry, who plays the rapper Paper Boi on the FX series "Atlanta," on the impact of music in his life from marching bands to his parents' vinyl collection. Hope you can joins us.
FRESH AIR's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our engineer today is Adam Staniszewski with additional engineering support from Joyce Lieberman and Julian Herzfeld. Our associate producer for digital media is Molly Seavy-Nesper. Roberta Shorrock directs the show. For Terry Gross, I'm David Bianculli.
(SOUNDBITE OF TV SHOW, "THE LATE LATE SHOW WITH JAMES CORDEN")
MCCARTNEY AND CORDEN: (Singing) If you come onto me, then I'll come onto you. Yes, I will. Yes, I will. Yes, I will now.
CORDEN: (Laughter).
(APPLAUSE)
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.