Americas Sweethearts

DATE July 20, 2001 ACCOUNT NUMBER N/A
TIME 12:00 Noon-1:00 PM AUDIENCE N/A
NETWORK NPR
PROGRAM Fresh Air

Interview: John Cusack discusses his previous films and his
current projects
PETER CLOWNEY, host:

This is FRESH AIR. I'm Peter Clowney filling in for Terry Gross.

John Cusack has been making movies since he was a teen-ager. His films
include "The Sure Thing," "Say Anything," "The Grifters," "Being John
Malkovich," and "High Fidelity." Now he's starring in the new movie
"America's Sweethearts." It's a satire about mediocre Hollywood melodramas
and the publicity junkets, which studios organize to pitch their films to
the
press. "America's Sweethearts" also stars Julia Roberts, Billy Crystal, and
Catherine Zeta-Jones. Later on today's show we'll hear what our movie
critic
thinks of the film.

Terry Gross talked with John Cusack last year after the release of "High
Fidelity," the film adaptation of Nick Hornby's best-selling novel. Cusack
played Rob Gordon the owner of a used record store who defines himself in
terms of his favorite songs. He defines everyone else in terms of theirs.
Here he is in the record store with a couple of fellow pop music obsessives
who work for him. Rob is declaring his list of the top five albums with
great
first tracks. The guy mocking him is played by Jack Black.

(Soundbite of "High Fidelity")

Mr. JACK BLACK (Actor): Rob, it's your turn.

Mr. JOHN CUSACK (Actor): OK. I'm feeling kind of basic today. Top five
side-ones--track-ones. Janie Jones, "Clash" from "The Clash." "Let's Get
It
On," Marvin Gaye, from "Let's Get It On." Nirvana, "Smells Like Teen
Spirit"
off of "Nevermind."

Mr. BLACK: Oh no, Rob, that's not obvious enough--not at all. How about
"Point of No Return" on "Point of No Return," Louis(ph), so you couldn't get
up...

Mr. CUSACK: Shut up. "White Light/White Heat," Velvet Underground.

Mr. BLACK: OK. That would be on my list.

Unidentified Man #1: Not on mine.

Mr. CUSACK: "Massive Attack," no protection, the song is "Radiation Ruling
the Nation."

Mr. BLACK: Oh, kind of a new record very--in a minute--very nice, Rob. A
sly
declaration of new classic status slipped into a list of old, safe
ones--very
(censored).

Unidentified Man #2: Excuse me, I was...

Mr. BLACK: In a minute. Couldn't you be any more obvious than that, Rob?
How about, I don't know, The Beatles? How about Beethoven--track-one,
side-one of the "Fifth Symphony"? How can someone who has no interest in
music own a record store?

(Soundbite of 2000 interview with Cusack)

TERRY GROSS, host:

John Cusack, welcome to FRESH AIR.

Mr. CUSACK: Hi.

GROSS: Do you know any people who are like the characters in the used
record
store in "High Fidelity"?

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, when I read Nick's book--Nick Hornby's book, I immediately
knew the equivalent in Chicago. I even knew all the geography. I knew
where
the record store was when I was growing up in suburban Chicago. I knew the
record store in downtown Chicago, when I was a little older and living
there.
I knew where Rob went when he was depressed, he went right to the Green
Mill.
You know, I knew where he spun records. I knew the clubs he went to. I
knew
the music scene there. And I think that's kind of, you know, the genius of
Nick's book, is that it really could be anywhere. It could be in Seattle,
Boston, Chicago. I mean, I don't know if it would play in Beijing; but any
Western-style country. I mean, everybody knows these people.

GROSS: Did you know those stores from buying records there?

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, yeah. And you just know the whole culture. You just know
that whole music culture.

GROSS: In a way, you know, like if you were really into buying books or
records, those stores are almost like museums--where all the rare stuff is.

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, yeah.

GROSS: And the guys who work there are the people who are the real experts.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, and that's, I mean, one of the things that's so great
about
the book and, hopefully, we've captured it in the film, is, you know, these
people who are Rob, Dick, and Barry--the people who run the record
store--and
who are so obsessed by and define their lives through music, they really see
themselves as misplaced royalty, you know, as these great, underappreciated
experts and scholars who really know more about anything that's ever been
recorded than the entire world. So there's really a great sense of fun
about
that because they're so full of themselves.

GROSS: One of the things that I think really works in the movie is the way
you've managed to preserve the main character's voice. I think one of the
difficult transitions in making any novel into a book is how do you get that
interior monologue in a movie? And the way you solved that problem in "High
Fidelity," was to have the main character, Rob, actually give monologues and
talk to the camera, just talk to us, the audience. You're one of the
co-writers of the screenplay and one of the producers of the film. Was that
a
big discussion about whether there should be these monologues within the
movie
or not?

Mr. CUSACK: Yes. I sort of--when we first started adapting it, we played
around with the idea and then we sort of put it to rest for a while and were
working on the script. And then finally we couldn't really figure out a way
to get all of those interior monologues sufficiently into the film. Because

the parts of Rob that, you know, are a slacker and in denial and inert and,
you know, lazy and all those fun things, that was easy. I mean, it was easy
to play him as the fool. But I think what gives Nick's characters, and
especially Rob, you know, a redemptive quality is their courage at sort of
looking at all those hard, uncomfortable truths that we'd rather avoid. And
it was very difficult to get those out. So I think the best thing we came
up
with was we should just have him kind of confess it to the audience and
start
a relationship with the audience as a confidant, or, you know, something of
that nature.

GROSS: Can I ask you to do a few lines from one of the monologues or read a
passage from the book that I know that you have with you, that you adapted
into one of the monologues?

Mr. CUSACK: Sure. I'll read you something that we sort of start the film
with, which is--the setting is that Rob's girlfriend Laura has just left
him.
And he has retreated into his usual sort of isolated world of music. And
he's
got his headphones on and he's got some angry music blaring, and he just
looks
up in the camera and says the following:

(Reading) What came first, the music or the misery? Did I listen to music
because I was miserable, or was I miserable because I listen to music? Do
all
these records turn you into a melancholy person? You know, people worry
about
kids playing with guns, and teen-agers watching violent videos, or scared
that
some sort of culture of violence will take them over. But nobody worries
about kids listening to thousands--literally thousands of songs about broken
hearts, rejection, pain, misery and loss. The unhappiest people I know,
romantically speaking, are the ones who like pop music the most. And I
don't
know whether pop music has caused this unhappiness, but I do know that
they've
been listening to the sad songs longer than they've been living unhappy
lives.

GROSS: That's a great passage. So that was one that you and the other
writers knew had to be in the movie?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, well, we wanted to sort of anchor, sort of, the
heartbreak
with the obsession with music right off the bat. So that's sort of how we
opened the film.

GROSS: Now is it hard to do a monologue into the camera? You're not
talking
to a person, you're not reacting to anything. What do you have to think
about
to make that work? Because it can be really stagey and not work. I think
it
really does work in the movie.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, we sort of--we thought of "Alfie," you know, with Michael
Caine as one that really worked. And then there were many, many instances
where it didn't. But I think just choosing the right content is the most
important thing. I mean, you certainly can't have be a casual aside. It
either has to be very, very funny or very honest, but it can't move the plot
forward or anything like that. And I think once you start doing it, it's
actually very liberating.

GROSS: How?

Mr. CUSACK: Well, it just seems to cut to the chase in some kind of
fantastic
way. And it's so direct that it's kind of startling to do.

GROSS: Now I was wondering if, like, the soliloquies in Shakespeare's time
were the equivalent of this--it's like talking to the audience.

Mr. CUSACK: We should be so lucky. But I've spoken to other actresses and
actors about it who've done it, you know. Nicole Kidman did the same thing
in
"To Die For."

GROSS: Right.

Mr. CUSACK: And she said, you know, she's very nervous to do it but then
once
she started, you know, she didn't want to stop. And I sort of felt the same
way. Once I really committed to it, it was one of my favorite parts of the
process.

CLOWNEY: John Cusack speaking with Terry Gross. Cusack appears in the new
film "America's Sweethearts," which opens today. We'll hear more of their
conversation in a moment. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

CLOWNEY: Let's return to our interview with John Cusack. Terry Gross spoke
with him last year after the release of the film "High Fidelity."

(Soundbite of 2000 interview with Cusack)

GROSS: Watching "High Fidelity," helped me, I think, figure out one of the
things that really works for you as an actor. I always believe you have an
inner life. Like when you're on screen, I always believe that you're
thinking
interesting thoughts and that the world is registering on you and you're
having, you know, like a dialogue with yourself about the meaning of it, and
that dialogue is, I always imagine, kind of funny also. And there's a lot
of
actors who just don't quite have that; you don't imagine having them having
an
inner life.

Mr. CUSACK: They're probably more adjusted, in some way.

GROSS: Well, some of them, you imagine, are too busy looking in the mirror
to
spend time having an inner life.

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, yeah, they have that disease, too, yeah.

GROSS: Is that something that you think about when you're acting, or
something that you think either exists or doesn't--that one projects?

Mr. CUSACK: I would imagine that would just be an aesthetic that someone
either has or they don't. You know, it would have to do with maybe their
mind
racing around a bit too fast for their own good, or maybe something more
poetic, I don't know. But it's--I don't quite know why that is, but some
people just have a certain complexity to their personalities that comes
through on film.

GROSS: I think that is also key in "Being John Malkovich," where you play
the
avante-garde puppeteer.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah.

GROSS: Real malcontent.

Mr. CUSACK: It's been a season for malcontents for me.

GROSS: Yes, right. Did that movie, the "Being John Malkovich," where you
played the avant-garde puppeteer give you a chance to work through the
pretentiousness of some bad avante-garde art that, I'm sure, you were
exposed
to?

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, yeah. I knew those guys. And I've known a lot of them
over
the years and--but also, I mean, I sort of know that person, you know,
without
getting Bravo channel about it all. I knew that person within myself too.
I
mean, there's a part of every, you know, actor or artist, I think, that
takes
himself incredibly seriously and thinks that his perceptions and feelings
and
intuitions are a great burden because of their depth. And so I sort of had
a
wonderful time playing that sort of pompous, arrogant character. It's a lot
of fun to do that stuff.

GROSS: What did you first think of the script when you read it?

Mr. CUSACK: "Being John Malkovich"?

GROSS: Yeah.

Mr. CUSACK: I thought--I read it five years ago, before it was even an idea
to be made; it was just a writing sample from this brilliant writer named
Charlie Kaufman. And I could conceive of a world where Charlie would write
that script, but I couldn't conceive of a world where someone would finance
that as a film. But just, you know, to be safe I told my agents, I said,
`This is a film I want to do. If anyone else does this film and you lose
track of it, you know, I'm off to another agency because this is the most
original piece of writing I think I've ever read.' And I imagine that
would--that would've been what it would be like to read, you know, "Python,"
when it first came out, "The Monty Python" script or something, just a
completely original comic voice. So when I found out that it was financed
and
I said, `Well, if it's financed, that means John must be doing it--John
Malkovich must be doing it.' And I know John, so I called him up and he
said,
`Oh yeah, you should do it.' And so I jumped at the chance.

GROSS: Did things play out differently on screen than you had imagined it
from your reading of the script?

Mr. CUSACK: Not at all. The script was really, you know, a brilliant
document. And, I mean, Spike and Charlie worked on it a bit, but it was all
there on the page. And it sort of cried out for the actors to really play
it
as a drama. I mean, it was very--it just had a completely unique tone. It
was completely absurd and inventive and kept topping itself in ways you
couldn't imagine. But it was emotionally very, very straightforward, so you
just had the sense that, you know, you can never get caught winking at the
camera and you can't get caught enjoying the madness of the piece that must
be
played with pure emotional sincerity. And if you do that, you know, we have
a
chance at doing something new, which doesn't really come up that often.

GROSS: Did you need a chiropractor or an Alexander teacher after working in
the set with the floors like half the height of a regular floor?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, they actually had a chiropractor sort of on the set,
so...

GROSS: Oh, really?

Mr. CUSACK: ...you know, at lunch you'd see--you'd just hear these terrible
popping and cracking sounds and people would be lined to be adjusted. But
then I thought maybe that they just made the set on that floor because I was
a
lot taller and Spike and Charlie are short guys and they could walk around
down there. And so that was just sort of their revenge against those of us
over, you know, 5'7".

GROSS: If you're just joining us, my guest is John Cusack.

Your sister Joan Cusack has a role in "High Fidelity." You've worked with
her
in several of your films. Is it important to you, when possible, to have
her
in movies that you're making?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, it's important to me and it seems to be important to the
people that I'm making the movies with. If there's a role that Joanie's
right
for, you know, when we start casting, they all just sort of look at me and
go,
`Can you get your sister?' Because everybody wants Joanie, because she's so
fabulous. And I know I'm biased, but I think a lot of people share my
opinion
of her work. So the idea of getting her to come in and do a week or two on
the film is kind of a no-brainer.

GROSS: She's a few years older than you. How many was it?

Mr. CUSACK: Let's see.

GROSS: Four?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah.

GROSS: So she started acting first in a children's theater in Chicago. How
did you get started in it? Did your parents think, `Well, he's nine now;
it's
time to send him over there'?

Mr. CUSACK: No, I think, you know, I'd seen Joan and my sister Ann perform
with this theater in suburban Chicago; and, you know, it just seemed sort of
like a magical place. It seemed like those people up there were doing all
these fun things and they were getting a lot of attention. There was a
whole
audience full of people who were quietly watching them, with sort of rapt
attention. And so I said, `That looks fun. I've got to try that.' And I
tried it, and I think it was just a great way to get people to pay attention
to you.

GROSS: Do you think that's how it starts?

Mr. CUSACK: I think so. Yeah.

GROSS: You did your first movie when you were 16. The movie was "Class."
Tell us a little of what the plot was.

Mr. CUSACK: Well, let's see, that was the Rob Lowe, Andrew McCarthy vehicle
back in around 1983 and...

GROSS: It was the whole Rob Lowe era.

Mr. CUSACK: It was the Rob Lowe era, yes. We were all a part of that. And
I believe it was two people who were in a prep school, and one of the
roommates has an affair with the other one's mother, played by the glorious
Jacqueline Bisset. So I was kind of in the right place at the right time.
I
was 16 and they were making films about teen-agers and they made two of them
in Chicago. And since I had been in the theater and I sort of had my chops
up, I guess I had an instinct for auditioning and I got those roles. And
that's what really started to give me a career.

GROSS: So it was "Class" and "Sixteen Candles"?

Mr. CUSACK: Yes.

GROSS: Did the kids that you played in those movies reflect your character
at
all, or the kids that you knew in high school, or did these just seem like
movie people?

Mr. CUSACK: Let's see, I think, certainly when I was in "Class," I was--you
know, I always thought--where I probably had the instinct that the first
thing
you do is sort of play yourself, and if you can get comfortable as yourself
in
front of the camera, then you can start to play different aspects of
yourself
and different characters. So I think when I was in "Class," I, you know,
tried to play a version of myself, or maybe who I'd like to be, or a part of
me that I thought would be funny--or, you know, if I was in a prep-school
what
would I be like? You know, I think that's the thought process that goes
through a 16-year-old actor's mind.

GROSS: Tell us something about what you were like when you were in high
school.

Mr. CUSACK: Well I just couldn't wait to get out of high school and, you
know, I just really hated it, if I remember correctly.

GROSS: Why?

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, I don't know, probably for the same reasons that most
everyone does, you know. Feeling like you were just required to, you know,
retain data rather than think or, you know, all the cliques and, you know,
sort of the social stuff seemed kind of disgusting. You know, that kind of
thing.

GROSS: I would imagine you were pretty highly regarded in high school
because
you were making movies.

Mr. CUSACK: Well, I really wasn't highly regarded in high school and then
when I started making movies, of course, I was, which was another valuable
lesson.

GROSS: Oh, an early introduction into hypocrisy.

Mr. CUSACK: Yes. Yes. I mean, I didn't really get much play with the
ladies. But then, all of a sudden, when I did a few films, I was taking the
jocks' girls.

GROSS: Well, did you try to teach anybody a lesson?

Mr. CUSACK: No. Not me. No, ma'am.

GROSS: You told Premiere magazine that when you were young you had this
bizarre amount of focus that came from a competitive desire to prove
yourself.
You said, `I'd walk into an audition with an attitude like, if I'm in this
room, you damn sure are going to look at me.' Tell me more about that
attitude when you went into an audition.

Mr. CUSACK: Well, I just sort of--I don't know, I think auditioning is a
totally different muscle than acting. And right now, if I had to audition
for
my parts, I would probably be doing community theater. It's just a totally
different muscle. But what I've figured out is that when you walk through
that door, you know, no one's going to want to wait for you to warm up.
They're not going to want to wait for you to sort of get loose and rev your
engines up. You sort of have to come through that door already going 60.
They don't want to wait for you to go from zero to 60. So you really sort
of
have to make an impact and get to a performance level right away. You have
to
get someone's attention, and they're looking for sort of solutions and
answers, so you have to come in and be an answer. So I really sort of, you
know, would listen to whatever music would get me revved up and sort of
defiant and then just sort of try to channel my energy into focus.

GROSS: What music would that have been?

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, God, at the time probably some Who song or something
ridiculous like that.

GROSS: Now would you be relying on ego power to get that, `I am here. All
eyes are on me' sense, or would you use acting skills to do it?

Mr. CUSACK: Well, clearly not the acting skills. I think--it's not really
like an ego--well, I guess it is an ego that you feel like you're better
than
someone. You feel like you're the best person for the part. But it's much
more of like a focusing of your energies and a concentration so that, you
know, you're very, very alive, and you're in a state of flow, but yet you're
very precise with the text and, you know, you have to come in and give a
very
confident impression of yourself. So I just decided, you know, that's just
not going to happen. I'm going to have to sort of work my way up to that,
get
to that state, get to that place. And I think that's really what
auditioning
is all about and a lot of people don't understand that. You know, you
really
have to make it a mini performance.

CLOWNEY: John Cusack speaking with Terry Gross. He's co-starring in the
new
film "America's Sweethearts," which opens today. We'll hear more of their
conversation in the second half of today's show. I'm Peter Clowney and this
is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

CLOWNEY: Coming up on FRESH AIR, we continue our conversation with actor
John
Cusack. And Henry Sheehan reviews "America's Sweethearts."

(Soundbite of music)

CLOWNEY: This is FRESH AIR. I'm Peter Clowney sitting in for Terry Gross.
Let's return to Terry's interview with John Cusack, who co-stars in the new
film "America's Sweethearts."

(Soundbite of interview)

GROSS: One of your early breakthrough roles was "The Sure Thing," in which
you played a freshman in college who isn't getting the girls like he thinks
he
should. Then a friend in Los Angeles tells him that there's a gorgeous
young
woman in LA who's a sure thing and so all your character has to do is get a
ride to LA. What effect did this film have on your career?

Mr. CUSACK: Well, that sort of gave me a career, really. Because I'd been
doing--I'd done two supporting roles in films and then I was--I'd take my
money from that and I was flying out to Los Angeles and sleeping on my
agent's
couch and, you know, doing auditions. And Rob Reiner gave me my first
break.
And he gave me a lead in the film and so--and the film did pretty well
critically and commercially, and so I was kind off to the races.

GROSS: I want to play a short scene from the film, and this is a...

Mr. CUSACK: From "The Sure Thing?"

GROSS: From "The Sure Thing," yeah.

Mr. CUSACK: My God. Wow.

GROSS: This is the scene--you're hitch-hiking--well, you have a ride to Los
Angeles--a ride with a couple of strangers because you want to...

Mr. CUSACK: Am I required to listen to this?

GROSS: Yes, you are.

Mr. CUSACK: All right.

GROSS: So, you've just gotten this ride to LA, and as you get into the back
seat, you realize that this woman--this young freshman who has been tutoring
you, who you don't get along with, is the other passenger. So, Tim Robbins
is
the driver in the car who's giving them a lift, and the scene starts with
Tim
Robbins and his girlfriend introducing everybody in the car.

(Soundbite of "The Sure Thing")

Ms. LISA JANE PERSKY (As Mary Ann Webster): Are you Gib?

Mr. CUSACK (As Walter "Gib" Gibson): Yeah.

Ms. PERSKY: Hi, welcome aboard. I'm Mary Ann Webster.

Mr. TIM ROBBINS (As Gary Cooper): And I'm Gary Cooper. But not the Gary
Cooper that's dead. Hop in!

Ms. PERSKY: Alison, this is Gib.

Mr. ROBBINS: And Gib, this is Alison.

Ms. DAPHNE ZUNIGA (As Alison Bradbury): I knew I should have taken the bus.

Mr. CUSACK (As Walter "Gib" Gibson): Why? And wind up sitting next to some
sleaze bag--some sleaze bag you don't know?

Ms. PERSKY: Oh! You two know each other!

Mr. CUSACK: We're old friends.

Ms. ZUNIGA: We're not old friends. We're acquaintances--very distant
acquaintances.

Mr. ROBBINS: Kids, come on. Let's make this a fun trip, OK?

Ms. PERSKY: You guys know any show tunes?

Mr. ROBBINS: That's a great idea! `When the moon is in the seventh
house...'

Ms. PERSKY: `...and Jupiter lines with Mars...'

Mr. ROBBINS: `...well then peace will guide the planets...'

Ms. PERSKY and Mr. ROBBINS: (In unison) `...and love will steer the skies.
This is the dawning of the age of Aquarius. The age of Aquarius...'

(End of movie soundbite)

GROSS: Oh, John Cusack, I chose that scene because I think that's the first
scene that you did with Tim Robbins, with whom you've become good friends
and...

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, yeah. Yeah.

GROSS: ...you're in his film "Cradle Will Rock." He's in "High Fidelity,"
in
a small, but very funny role. So was this your first scene together?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, that's where I met Tim. That's where I met Tim. He was
26 and I was 16.

GROSS: Wow.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, it was a long time ago.

GROSS: Yeah. Yeah, what was it about you that connected?

Mr. CUSACK: Well, I think he's, you know, a very deranged individual in a
lot of ways, so we just along great--and very, very funny and smart and so
we
just became fast friends.

GROSS: Now I know that you created a theater company, I think, in Chicago,
called New Crime Theater, that I read was inspired by the one that Tim
Robbins
had created. Is that true?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah. Well, Tim was in a theater company called The Actors'
Gang. And when we did "The Sure Thing," we became friends and, you know,
had
similar interests in films and plays. And then I think what happened was we
were in New York somewhere together, Tim and I, and I think Reagan had
bombed
Libya. And we found it such a depressing time--well, all the Reagan
administration seemed like a horribly depressing time. But that moment we
felt was so horrible that we decided to go off and just, you know, do some
piece of political theater about that. And I went out and worked with The
Actors' Gang and did a play with them. I was introduced to the committee
del
arte(ph) style.

Actually, I'd been introduced to it earlier. I'd come out and we'd done a
workshop with--he was working with some people at UCLA and the Theatric de
Soule(ph) in Paris, George Begow(ph). And I'd come out and done that with
him. And then once Reagan bombed Libya, we decided to go do a play, and
that
was when I worked with The Actors' Gang. And then later I took that style,
that I had learned, and started a company in Chicago. And Tim came out and
we
did a play there, and so it was just sort of like--yeah, it was kind of like
a
brother-sister company kind of thing.

(End of interview soundbite)

CLOWNEY: John Cusack talking with Terry Gross. We'll hear more of their
conversation after this break. This is FRESH AIR.

(Soundbite of music)

CLOWNEY: Let's return to our interview with John Cusack. Cusack co-stars
in
the film "America's Sweethearts," which opens today.

(Soundbite of interview)

GROSS: Let me get to your movie "Say Anything," which is, I think, another
early role that really helped establish you. And in this you play someone
in
high school who falls in love with the class valedictorian. But you have no
academic gifts and she's like the really smart one so this seems to a lot of
people like an incredible mismatch. You're also kind of directionless
outside
of your love for kick boxing. So in this scene you're at a dinner at your
girlfriend's father's house, and all the adults at the table are asking you
questions to figure out whether you're a worthy boyfriend.

(Soundbite of "Say Anything")

Unidentified Man #1: So Lloyd, you graduated Lakewood, right?

Mr. CUSACK (As Lloyd Dobler): Yes sir.

Unidentified Man #1: What are you going to do now?

Mr. CUSACK: Have a life. I don't have any plans for the future. Spend as
much time as possible with Diane before she leaves.

Unidentified Man #2: Seriously, Lloyd.

Mr. CUSACK: I'm totally and completely serious.

Unidentified Man #2: No, really.

Mr. CUSACK: You mean a career? I don't know. I've thought about this
quite
a bit, sir. And I would have to say considering what's waiting out there
for
me, I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a
career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed or buy anything
sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought or processed. Or repair
anything sold, bought or processed. You know, as a career I don't want to
do
that. So, my father's in the Army. He wants me to join, but I can't work
for
that corporation. So what I've been doing lately is kick boxing. Which is
a
new sport, but I think it's got a good future. As far as career longevity,
I
don't really know because you can't really tell ...(unintelligible) six as a
fighter, you know, it's no good. You know, you have to be great. But I
can't
really tell if I'm great until I've had a couple of pro fights. But I
haven't
been knocked out yet. I don't know. I can't figure it all out tonight, so
I'm just going to hang out with your daughter.

(End of movie soundbite)

GROSS: John Cusack in a scene from "Say Anything." There's some very funny
line readings in that. Did you do those lines many different ways before
figuring out how you wanted to do it for the actual shoot?

Mr. CUSACK: No, not really. What I did was--Cameron and I were working on
that scene and...

GROSS: This is Cameron Crowe the director.

Mr. CUSACK: Cameron Crowe--I'm sorry. Cameron Crowe and I were working on
that scene, and we sort of wrote that speech together because I felt like--I
felt like there was a lot more that we could say. And we really wanted to
sort of give him a sort of distinct worldview. And it was sort of a
worldview
that, I guess, matched my own when I was--I was that age so when I was 20,
21.
It was sort of about fears of joining into a society that you don't quite
really understand or have a lot of respect for in a lot of ways. So, it
wasn't really line readings, as much as once we sort of--Cameron and I were
working and we just came out with that rap. And then we just sort of said,
`All right. That's it. Let's do it.' And then we just tried it a couple
different ways. We tried a few of them longer, a few of them shorter. But
it's not really about line readings as much as it is just sort of getting
into
the right kind of state of flow, I think.

GROSS: I think some people who get started in, you know, quote, "youth
films," have a hard time getting out of it and having adult careers. Were
you
ever worried about that? Was that ever a problem?

Mr. CUSACK: I was never really worried about it because when I was playing
teen-agers and young people I was a teen-ager and young person. So I always
just sort of assumed, maybe naively, that when I got older I'd play older
roles. So, I didn't have that worry. I mean, you know, of course, when
you're younger you want to do more substantial stuff. And you always think
that there's better roles waiting for you as you get older. But I didn't
have
that kind of concern.

GROSS: Did you go to drama school?

Mr. CUSACK: No, I didn't.

GROSS: How come?

Mr. CUSACK: I never did. Well, I always thought that--I mean, I was
working
already, in films. I mean, I'd done three films and a lead in a film before
I
graduated high school. And I had had a lot of training at the Piven Theatre
Workshop, you know, in Chicago and Evanston, so I'd been doing theater and
working. And I always sort of thought that, you know, the people I met who
had sort of gone to theater school and stuff, they always seemed to be--I
don't know, they seemed to be sort of--there's something precious about
them.
This is just my own opinion. I'm not saying it's true. But there used to
be
something sort of precious about it all. And I always thought, `Well, if
you're going to go to college, you should learn about everything else you
don't know,' because you can get a lot of experience acting by just doing it
and working with great people. So when I went to NYU I was studying liberal
arts for a semester. I wasn't studying theater.

GROSS: A whole semester, huh?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, I made it all the way through.

GROSS: You dropped out after that?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, I went--well, I had sort of too much fire in the belly
really. I wasn't ready to go to school because I was working and I was
getting offers. And I really wanted to work.

GROSS: John Cusack is my guest. Let me get to another film that, I think,
showed a completely different side of you from your earlier films. And I'm
thinking of "The Grifters." You know, after playing all these like lovable,
loser teen-age roles, in "The Grifters," you played a guy in his mid-20s who
is a con artist and his mother, played by Anjelica Huston, is a long-time
con
artist. And his girlfriend, played by Annette Bening, is a con artist, too.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, Roy was doomed from the day he was born. That's what I
use to say.

GROSS: Yeah. And it's a terrific film. A kind of film noir, contemporary
film noir. And instead of--I mean, you're really opaque in this movie. I
mean, it's hard--you watch this movie and you know your character is always
thinking, but you're not necessarily sure what. And you're not quite a
benign
character in this either.

Mr. CUSACK: What do you mean by that?

GROSS: Well, in your other movies, even if you're kind of a loser or you're
thoughtless about something, you're not dangerous in the way that this
character has the potential of being, although he seems to have this kind of
decency beneath. But you're kind of braced for any kind of surprise,
because
the character is so opaque. Let me play a scene from the movie. This is a
scene with Annette Bening, who plays your girlfriend in the movie. And she
has a scheme for this really ambitious con that she wants to team up with
you
on. And you've been taught the hard way that it's dangerous to have a
partner
for a con man, so you don't want to go along with the plan to be partners.

(Soundbite from movie "The Grifters")

Ms. ANNETTE BENING (As Myra Langtry): What's going on? Why don't you want
to team up?

Mr. CUSACK (As Roy Dillon): The best reason I can think of is that you
scare
the hell out of me. I have seen women like you before, baby. You're double
tough and you are sharp as a razor and you get what you want or else. But
you
don't make it work forever. Sooner or later the lightning hits, and I'm not
going to be around when it hits you.

Ms. BENING: My God, it's your mother. It's Lily.

Mr. CUSACK: What?

Ms. BENING: Sure it is. That's why you act so funny around each other.

Mr. CUSACK: What's that?

Ms. BENING: Oh, don't act so God damned innocent. You and your own mother?
Oh, you like to go back where you've been, huh?

Mr. CUSACK: Watch your mouth.

Ms. BENING: Yeah, see, I'm wise to you. I should have seen it before, you
rotten son of a bitch. How is it? Huh? How do you like it when...

(Soundbite of fighting and sobbing)

Ms. BENING: Ow. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop.

Mr. CUSACK: That's not like me. I don't do this. That's why we wouldn't
work together. You're disgusting. Your mind is so filthy it's hard to look
at you. Goodbye.

(End of movie soundbite)

GROSS: That's a great scene. John Cusack, what did "The Grifters" enable
you
to do that you hadn't done on film before?

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, I'd say a kind of a level of sophistication and drama that
I'd never had an opportunity to do, not even close.

GROSS: Stephen Frears, who also directed your new movie "High Fidelity,"
directed "The Grifters." What did you have to do when you auditioned for
this
part to prove that you could play somebody as tough as this character is and
as--both tough and vulnerable, but not the kind of like more kind of cute,
lovable, loser role that you'd been playing in the teen movies.

Mr. CUSACK: The cute, lovable, loser role. Well, I think what happened was
I'd read "The Grifters," and I was a fan of Jim Thompson from high school.
And when Stephen wanted to meet me, you know, I told him that I had always
wanted to do the book. And I'd actually tried to option the book, I
remember,
when I was 19 or 20 because I thought it was so great. I thought it was
this
great definition of, you know, a pulp crime novel and Greek tragedy--I just
thought it was so fantastic. And so I went to meet him, and I think it was
at
the Algonquin Hotel. And Stephen is a very strange, strange, strange man,
wonderful man, but very, very odd processes. And he met me in the Algonquin
Hotel. And I sat down and he just started circling me. He just started
walking around me, looking at me, sort of rubbing his lip. And so what I
did--I just looked back. And he turned around and said--he went behind me,
and I turned my chair around and followed him around. And we just sort of
did
this dance. And then we started talking about the film, and talking about
the
script, and the book. And then that was it. I never auditioned. He just
hired me.

GROSS: That's great. In one of the first scenes, you're doing a con in
that
scene. You're at a bar. You hold up a 20 to the bar tender. And as you
actually give him the bill, you're making eye contact with him so he can't
see
that you've replaced the 20 with a 10. I'm wondering where you learned the
grifts from. Are these grifts from the book?

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, many of the grifts are from the book. But we also
brought
in a lot of professional cheaters and some experts on the subject, like
Ricky
Jay(ph)--he came on in. And we actually found a few mechanics--mechanics
are
people who do that for a living. And they came in and they gave me little
tutorials on lying and deception. It was a great way to spend a September.

GROSS: I imagine you learned a lot about acting from that, because that's

what these guys have to do is act.

Mr. CUSACK: Well, I learned a lot about how to play the character from
those
guys, because they were almost like--you said opaque, and I mean, they were
almost like invisible. You'd be in a room with them and they'd be the most
kind of personable guys, but they'd be guys who you'd leave the room and you
couldn't remember what they were wearing or what they really looked like.
Or
there's was nothing distinctive about them. They were just--they were kind
of
just non-persons. And I think it's by choice because they don't want to be
remembered or noticed. So they were kind of fascinating characters.

GROSS: But I'm wondering if even you learned about things like eye contact
in
ways you hadn't before--like using your eyes to divert somebody when you're
doing a con on them.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah.

GROSS: Or to hold their attention so they don't see the slip of the hand.
You know, they don't see what your hands are doing.

Mr. CUSACK: Yeah, I mean, most--I think mostly you find out that it's--I
mean, you find out about all of these diversions and you find out
about--that
there's a real power in not asserting any aggressive energy. So you do sort
of learn about the great power of restraint. But more than anything else
you
find out that the grifts are just about having information that the other
person doesn't have in many various forms. You just have some information
that he doesn't have and that makes him very, very gullible.

GROSS: You said that when you were young acting was about getting
attention--this was when you were really young--like nine, 10. What's
acting
about to you now?

Mr. CUSACK: I just think it's about expression and trying to tell stories
and find out how people are alike, you know, what it means to be kind of
human
and go through the same experiences. And I think it's just a very personal
form of expression that--it's a strange one because it's such a--you know,
there's not a more expensive art form in history. And there's so much money
and pressure about it, but ultimately it comes down to these very, very,
very
personal kind of performances, on this large scale. So I just--I'm sort of
hooked.

GROSS: John Cusack, a real pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much
for
being with us.

Mr. CUSACK: Oh, thank you for having me.

(End of interview soundbite)

CLOWNEY: John Cusack spoke last year with Terry Gross. He co-stars in the
new film "America's Sweethearts," which opens today. What does our film
critic think of "America's Sweethearts"? A review coming up after this
break.
I'm Peter Clowney and this is FRESH AIR.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Review: New movie "America's Sweethearts"
PETER CLOWNEY, host:

"America's Sweethearts" is a new backstage comedy about Hollywood. It stars
Billy Crystal, who also co-wrote the film, as a veteran press agent. Julia
Roberts is a harried personal assistant to her movie star sister played by
Catherine Zeta-Jones. And John Cusack is the movie star's movie star
husband.
Film critic Henry Sheehan has a review.

HENRY SHEEHAN reporting:

"America's Sweethearts" promises all sorts of send-ups of Hollywood egos and
practices. But its most shocking revelation isn't a joke at all: It's that
people in the movie business consider Larry King a tough interviewer. Yes,
the king of the journalistic big, wet kiss, who naturally plays himself in
this wet noodle of a farce, is portrayed as a dangerous, probing
interrogator.
Less an insider's satire of the movie business and a primer for
psychiatrists
specializing in self-delusion, "America's Sweethearts" focuses an occluded
lens on the fun-house mirror world of Hollywood publicity.

This distortion of a distortion does feature a handful of straightforward
pleasures. Billy Crystal, who co-wrote the script and produced the film,
has
made sure that his character, publicist Lee Phillips, has a suitable ration
of
belly laugh inducing one-liners. And Julia Roberts, who is now in the
unexpected prime of a solid career, demonstrates that the last hurdle
between
her and greatness is her inability to pick a good script. But what's really
interesting about this film is how it reveals the weird perspective of stars
and apparently studio executives.

The movie's directed by Joe Roth. Now running his own hybrid operation
after
heading the Disney and Fox film studios, Roth isn't much of a director. His
model seems to be the railroad station master who keeps trains running on
time. But this isn't just a filmmaking blemish, it's an insight, for if
Roth
thinks he has done a fine job directing, that explains why so many mediocre
directors have found Hollywood sinecures while legitimate talents have gone
begging. Roth and his ilk think clumsy and quick is the way to go.

The movie takes place at a Nevada hotel, part of a chain, which gets plenty
of
free plugs, where Crystal's Phillips is running a press junket. A junket is
one of those notoriously cushy gatherings where the entertainment press is
invited, often at a studio's expense, to spend a day or a weekend attending
screenings and doing interviews for soon-to-be released movies.

In tune with the movie's moral obtuseness, a number of journalists have
taken
parts in the movie. How can they possibly pretend to maintain some sort of
critical distance ever again from Billy Crystal, Julia Roberts, or Joe Roth
in
their future projects after having a high old time making a movie with them?

Amidst all this corruption, Crystal and his writing partner Peter Tolan,
slap
down a love story involving Roberts' character. She plays Kiki Harrison,
the
sister of and personal assistant to movie star Gwen Harrison, played with an
astonishing lack of wit by Catherine Zeta-Jones. Phillips, the publicist,
is
trying to manufacture press interest in a movie by pretending that Gwen is
reuniting with her long-time co-star and husband Eddie Thomas, played by
John
Cusack. As much as Gwen is horribly egocentric, so Eddie is a pussy cat.
This naturally means he must be more suited to the doormat Kiki, though the
dumb lug doesn't realize it yet. Here Crystal's Phillips and Roberts' Kiki
discuss the vagaries of junket love.

(Soundbite of movie "America's Sweethearts")

Mr. BILLY CRYSTAL (As Lee Phillips): What the hell happened?

Ms. JULIA ROBERTS (As Kiki Harrison): Bad morning, preceded by 33 bad
years.

Mr. CRYSTAL: Does this have something to do with Gwen?

Ms. ROBERTS: Of course not. I love my sister. I love everything about
her.
`Kiki, Kikikins, who's smoking? I smell smoke. Is someone smoking within a
six mile radius of where I'm standing? Stop them, Kiki! Stop them!'
Ma'am,
the butter. What? Are they out of butter? How can you run out of butter?

Mr. CRYSTAL: Well, I have one theory.

Ms. ROBERTS: You know what? I need an assistant. Because if I had an
assistant, she would be outside right now milking a cow and I would never
ever
run out of butter. `Oh Kiki, my butter has touched another food. I need
new
butter.' `Anything you want, honey.' That's the way it goes, Lee. Right?
You're a publicist, you know. Anything they want, right?

(End of soundbite)

SHEEHAN: Sounds all right, doesn't it? Crystal and Roberts do seem to
connect a bit, so cleverly the filmmakers have insured that this is one of
the
very few scenes in the movie the two share. For the most part Crystal stars
in a comedy vehicle, while Roberts leads a romance featuring the unpalatable
Jones and the awkwardly miscast and antsy Cusack. Yes, by all means, let's
have some fun about the personal lives of Hollywood citizens. Anything to
distract us from the despiriting mediocrity of their professional output.

CLOWNEY: Henry Sheehan is film critic for the Orange County Register.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Profile: Scott Merrill, Broadway actor, died at the age of 82
PETER CLOWNEY, host:

We've learned that Broadway actor Scott Merrill died last month on June,
28th.
He was 82. One of Merrill's most celebrated roles was as Macheath, Mack the
Knife in Kurt Weill's "The Threepenny Opera." From the 1954 production,
here's Scott Merrill singing "Ballad of the Easy Life."

(Soundbite of "Ballad of the Easy Life")

Mr. SCOTT MERRILL (As Macheath): (Singing) They tell you that the best in
life is mental. Just to starve yourself and do a lot of reading, up in some
garret where the rats are breeding. Should you survive, it's purely
accidental. If that's your pleasure, go on, live that way. But since I've
had it up to here, I'm through. There's not a dog from here to Timbuktu
would
care to live that life for a single day. So listen closely to Mack the
Knife.
The bulging pocket makes the easy life.

Now once I use to think it might be worthy to be a brave and sacrificing
person. I soon found out it wasn't reimbursing, decided to continue being
earthy. The noble boar are nobly underfed. And being brave will bring an
empty fame. You're all alone with no one else to blame. You're mingling
with
the great but you are dead. Where's the percentage? Ask Mack the Knife.
The
bulging pocket makes the easy life.

CLOWNEY: Scott Merrill as Macheath in "The Threepenny Opera." Merrill died
last month. He was 82.

(Soundbite of music)

(Credits)

CLOWNEY: For Terry Gross, I'm Peter Clowney.
Transcripts are created on a rush deadline, and accuracy and availability may vary. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Please be aware that the authoritative record of Fresh Air interviews and reviews are the audio recordings of each segment.